KGS you silly boy, get your ass in here

[Princhester]

Listen up, sunshine. You are not worth continuing to debate for two reasons, neither of which justify any triumphalism on your part.

Firstly, you need to learn to read and comprehend English. I never said that Quantum Science or Chaos Theory were meaningless terms. Contrapuntal kindly pointed this out to you and your response consisted of you dribbling obfuscating nonsense. I’ll give you a clue: it’s not about mindsets or dysfunctionality. It’s about whether I said that those terms were meaningless or whether I didn’t.

Anyhow, dimwits who can’t read and/or fuckwits who choose not to are uncommon but hardly rare around here. What does give me the shits though is your attack on Ianzin. There are few posters more gentlemanly and as unfailingly polite, and who are so relentlessly careful to express their openness to evidence and substantial rejoinder, as he.

You have presented not a skerrick of evidence in favour of psychics for Ianzin to consider one way or the other. And yet you see fit to make a repeated, bald, unsupported, unhelpful, insulting assertion, namely that there would be no point in presenting any evidence to Ianzin because Ianzin would be too close minded to consider it. You have found Ianzin guilty of a crime he not only hasn’t committed but (as you know damn well) he hasn’t even had the opportunity to commit even if he wanted to because you are too gutless and/or ignorant and/or factually bereft to even present him with any evidence to reject.

Your last few posts (in which you apologise and then for some incomprehensible reason withdraw the apology) are just childish.

Why the hell would I continue a discussion with the likes of you?

[kimera]

A well deserved pitting. Hell, that whole thread deserves pitting. I thought this board was about fighting ignorance? Lord Ashtar’s “psychic evidence” is laughably lacking.

Here’s the worst of KGS for those to lazy to scroll and read:

@KGS

AHA!!! So THAT’S where his prejudice comes from!! I should have known. All this time, he’s pretending to be fair & balanced, when in fact HIS CAREER depends on the non-existence of psychic power. That explains the denial, the evasive answers, and the barely concealed hostility. It all boils down to money in the end, doesn’t it?

In reference to ianzin. ianzin responds eloquently with this post.
KGS realizes that s/he’s out of line and answers

@KGS

However, some people – in fact, most people, especially Americans – are solely money-oriented. I did not mean to assert that you were one of those people, and if I came across that way, then I do apologize.

Contrapuntal reminds KGS of his/her own words to which s/he responds

@KGS

Very well. I hearby retract my apology, and stand by initial words, that ianzin is solely motivated by money. Or, at least, the survival of his career. (Judging by his hot-headed response, it’s pretty clear I hit the nail a little close to the head, right?)

[KGS]

Yay!! Now I can say what I really feel!!!

@Princhester

What does give me the shits though is your attack on Ianzin. There are few posters more gentlemanly and as unfailingly polite, and who are so relentlessly careful to express their openness to evidence and substantial rejoinder, as he.

Like I ever met this twit before I posted to that thread. I had no idea he was such a nice guy…elsewhere. He must hang out in different threads than the ones I haunt.

Look, as far as I’m concerned, Ianzin acted like an asshole. I can’t explain why he chose to behave that way. What am I psychic?
And then, I read THIS little gem [emphasis mine]:

@glee

Ianzin is a magician. A respectable and skilled profession.

HAHAHA!!! Respectable! Are you freakin’ HIGH?
A Magician and a Psychic are THE SAME THING! The only difference is, the magician TELLS you he is lying! Or, at least, the audience is presumed to have suspension of disbelief, like watching a movie or reading a book. It’s all about feeding the brain. Some people want entertainment, some people want religion, and some just want to feel like there’s more to life than boring atoms and photons bouncing around space.

A Magician and a Psychic use the same type of skills (basically) – distraction, sleight of hand, trick of the eye, cold reading, what have you. It is of the utmost hypocrasy to claim one profession is valid, and the other is not.

(Oh, also in that reply):

@glee

The sort of person who are motivated by money are psychics like Sylvia Brown, who charge around $1750 per hour.

Woot! Dat bitch makin’ some moooolah! Maybe Ianzin should raise his fee, then he wouldn’t be so uptight.

You have presented not a skerrick of evidence in favour of psychics for Ianzin to consider one way or the other.

Ain’t my thread, honey. I’m only providing debate. You want evidence, ask the OP of that thread. And btw, I never took the stance that psychic power actually exists. At most, I intimated that such powers might exist. That’s it, sweetheart. If I’m wrong, prove it so. It should be so hard, the thread is only 5 pages long.

And yet you see fit to make a repeated, bald, unsupported, unhelpful, insulting assertion, namely that there would be no point in presenting any evidence to Ianzin because Ianzin would be too close minded to consider it.

Oh, he’s close-minded alright. I saw that right away. And as soon as I learned he was a magician (snicker, snicker) well…there was no point in discussing things further.

You have found Ianzin guilty of a crime he not only hasn’t committed but (as you know damn well) he hasn’t even had the opportunity to commit

Is this about that fucking “All Things Boil Down To Money” Remark? Look, I already apologized once for that. Not because I wanted to, but because I thought it was only fair to concede one. Then someone (I’m not gonna bother looking for who) said, “I don’t think a mere apology will suffice here.” So, fuck it. Fuck you, and fuck apologies. I ain’t sorry for shit. Deal with it.

[Princhester]

@KGS

Oh, he’s close-minded alright. I saw that right away. And as soon as I learned he was a magician (snicker, snicker) well…there was no point in discussing things further.

Absolutely priceless. Just gold. Pure gold.

[Miller]

@KGS

HAHAHA!!! Respectable! Are you freakin’ HIGH?
A Magician and a Psychic are THE SAME THING! The only difference is, the magician TELLS you he is lying!

That strikes me as a pretty significant difference.

[FinnAgain]

@Miller

That strikes me as a pretty significant difference.

You too, eh?

Other gems from our addled babbler include:

@KGS

Ain’t my thread, honey. I’m only providing debate. You want evidence, ask the OP of that thread.

There might be a few words for that, but “debate” aint one of 'em.

@KGS

And btw, I never took the stance that psychic power actually exists. At most, I intimated that such powers might exist. That’s it, sweetheart. If I’m wrong, prove it so.

Ahhh, the Invisible Dragon in My Garage dodge.
Classic.

What on earth is it about this website that attracts “debaters” like this? Did someone leave a trail of stupid food crumbs to our door, again?

[tomndebb]

@KGS

Look, as far as I’m concerned, Ianzin acted like an asshole. I can’t explain why he chose to behave that way. What am I psychic?

You misspelled psychotic.

Nothing in Ianzin’s posts could be remotely construed to be the actions of an asshole. Your personal need to draw invalid conclusions based on poor reading skills is not an indictment of his behavior.

[Darkhold]

Maybe The Man is hiding the psychic powers of people to keep us all down (read the whole thread for some real eye rollers). I’m really stunned that someone of such breathtaking stupidity has gone under my radar this long. He has no evidence of anything. He resorts to ad hominems against anyone that disagrees with him. Everyone has some other motive for disagreeing with him not the fact he’s stupid and wrong.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@KGS

A Magician and a Psychic are THE SAME THING! The only difference is, the magician TELLS you he is lying! Or, at least, the audience is presumed to have suspension of disbelief, like watching a movie or reading a book. It’s all about feeding the brain. Some people want entertainment, some people want religion, and some just want to feel like there’s more to life than boring atoms and photons bouncing around space.

A Magician and a Psychic use the same type of skills (basically) – distraction, sleight of hand, trick of the eye, cold reading, what have you. It is of the utmost hypocrasy to claim one profession is valid, and the other is not.

I’m glad you agree that “psychics” are really just a specialized type of illusionists and I agree that they are employing basically the same kinds of skills and theatrics used in any other form of stage magic.

However, I think you’re missing the point when you try to imply that the skills involved in performing psychic acts have anything to do with what makes it (necessarily) “invalid” as a profession. I think it’s quite valid when (as with any other magic) it’s merely performed for entertainment without any pretense that it’s anything but a clever trick. “Mind reading” tricks have lomg been a staple of traditional magic shows. David Blaine does cold reading and admits that it’s cold reading (I once saw an amusing interview of Blaine on Howard Stern in which Blaine was going into detail about how he used his mind reading trick to pick up women. He would “read” them and make them feel like he was really getting into their souls. The funny thing was, he used the exact same “reading” on every single woman). There’s nothing illegitimate or invalid about it as a peformance skill per se. The problem is when it involves deception and fraud…especially when that fraud involves exploiting grief for profit.

[SkipMagic]

@kimera

Hell, that whole thread deserves pitting. I thought this board was about fighting ignorance?

Which, quite honestly, is why it’s been left open. When Lord Ashtar asked for permission to start the thread, my assumption at the time was that he was kidding around and was just going to use it as a fun game. The assumption is my fault, of course, (and I in no way mean to imply that Lord Ashtar was deceitful in his request) but when I realized that he wasn’t joking, the thread had turned worthwhile with the involvment of Ianzin and others. Sometimes it’s better to leave these threads open so that it can be shown how meritless psychic claims tend to be.

[KGS]

@Diogenes the Cynic

However, I think you’re missing the point when you try to imply that the skills involved in performing psychic acts have anything to do with what makes it (necessarily) “invalid” as a profession. I think it’s quite valid when (as with any other magic) it’s merely performed for entertainment without any pretense that it’s anything but a clever trick. [snip] The problem is when it involves deception and fraud…especially when that fraud involves exploiting grief for profit.

Thank you, Dio, for your cool-headed response. However I disagree with your implication that all psychics engage in fraud. First, the so-called psychics you see on TV – the Miss Cleo informercials, the John Edwards types on daytime TV – always bear a disclaimer that says, “FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY”. If people can’t read, it ain’t the psychic’s fault that a fool and his money soon will be parted.

Second…well, here’s my experience with psychics. A few years ago, I took a “meditation” class which sounds very similar to the one that Lord Ashtar took. It only cost a few hundred dollars – I can’t remember the exact price, I didn’t pay for it. We did stuff like chakra healing, cleansing the aura, centering yourself in the third eye. It was fun, and it really helped as a series of mental exercises, some of which I still use to help myself focus and relax.

Now…some of the teachers and healers, I could tell, didn’t know what the hell they were doing. (They misred my aura as blue, when it was clearly orange…even my cat could see that!) Some appeared to have “the gift”, but I figured out later they were cold reading. Hey, that’s fine with me. I’m impressed by an effective cold read, as much as anything else.

A few…well, 2 or 3 in particular…well, they definitely had something going on. I can’t explain why, nor will I dare give examples (because I know everyone will rip them to shreds, no matter what I say.) All I can say is…there IS something to it. You can’t convince me otherwise.

Maybe, it was only a collision of coincidences. Or maybe, that’s the elusive definition of psychic ability = the collision of coincidences, creating order from chaos. Is that science? Maybe, maybe not. Who knows?

[KGS]

@tomndebb

You misspelled psychotic.

Nothing in Ianzin’s posts could be remotely construed to be the actions of an asshole. Your personal need to draw invalid conclusions based on poor reading skills is not an indictment of his behavior.

Well, perhaps I misred his intent. There was a lot of prejudice and baiting in that thread, however. It kinda came from all directions. I’m too busy with real life to go back read the whole stupid thread, so I’ll just take your word for it.

Still…
Psychic = Psychotic. Heh. Some would claim so, I guess. (One of these days, if I’m bored enough, I’ll talk about Nathaniel. But he’s sleeping right now, don’t want to wake him up.) It’s really all about point of view, isn’t it?

[Princhester]

Mmm. I see. So you “never took the stance that psychic power actually exist”, and at most you “intimated that such powers might exist” but at the same time there is definitely in your view “something going on” but you can’t explain why and you won’t give examples because you know that they would be “ripped to shreds” but nonetheless there “is something to it” and you cannot be convinced otherwise and other people’s minds are closed on the subject.

I’m done with poking this particular monkey through the bars of his cage.

[Airman_Doors_USAF]

What prejudice? All that is required is proof of psychic abilities that goes above the level of luck or coincidence. When someone has the audacity to make a claim like that they are responsible for substantiating it.

I find it telling that out of 6 billion people currently living and all the rest that have come before not a single one of them has ever been able to substantiate such a claim in a manner that would be acceptable to even the least skeptical scientist.

You can’t be prejudiced against something that doesn’t exist.

[FinnAgain]

@Princhester

I’m done with poking this particular monkey through the bars of his cage.

But but but! His aura is orange! Doesn’t that count for something?

[Princhester]

@FinnAgain

But but but! His aura is orange! Doesn’t that count for something?

Well sure, but what? What? It’s all so confusing.

[FinnAgain]

I’m not sure… but my cat is orange, too.

[KGS]

@Princhester

…you cannot be convinced otherwise and other people’s minds are closed on the subject.

Yep. How is that different from anyone else? Including yourself?

Look, I know there’s a deep-seated hostility towards psychics on the SDMB. Fer chrissakes, Creationists don’t get this much ridicule. The assumption seems to be that Psychic = Ignorance, and that’s not true. In fact, it’s downright prejudiced. But…whatever.

I’m done with poking this particular monkey through the bars of his cage.

Oooh, don’t stop! It tickles!!

@Airman Doors

What prejudice? All that is required is proof of psychic abilities that goes above the level of luck or coincidence. When someone has the audacity to make a claim like that they are responsible for substantiating it.

You can’t be prejudiced against something that doesn’t exist.

Ah, now that is pure prejudice. You’ve already made up your mind that psychic ability does not exist, and yet you claim the willingness to accept “proof”. How can you ever accept “proof”, if you’ve already made up your mind? Let me tell you, I can guarantee that you have run across evidence (if not proof) of psychic ability, at least once or twice in your lifetime. Perhaps, many times. You just haven’t been paying attention.

[FinnAgain]

@KGS

Yep. How is that different from anyone else? Including yourself?

Replicate a “psychic” phenomena in a controlled, repeatable enviornment and you’ll convince people. Funny, that.

@KGS

In fact, it’s downright prejudiced. But…whatever.

Indeed… whatever. And while you’re at it, get down off the cross. Holding people’s claims to standards of proof and refutation is hardly bigoted,

@KGS

Ah, now that is pure prejudice. You’ve already made up your mind that psychic ability does not exist, and yet you claim the willingness to accept “proof”. How can you ever accept “proof”, if you’ve already made up your mind?

Use some crystal power to answer that one, spunky. Or if that fails, some pryamid power. One can be convinced but still open to new evidence. Funny, then, that in thousands of years there has never been a scrap of evidence, ever, to support such magic hoodoo. Or do you dis-believe in the Invisible Firebreathing Dragon in my garage? (you bigot)

@KGS

Let me tell you, I can guarantee that you have run across evidence (if not proof) of psychic ability, at least once or twice in your lifetime.

Mmmm hmmmm. Funny little distinction there between “evidence” and proof. Go figure.

[KGS]

@FinnAgain

Funny, then, that in thousands of years there has never been a scrap of evidence, ever, to support such magic hoodoo. Or do you dis-believe in the Invisible Firebreathing Dragon in my garage? (you bigot)

Hey, that’s a funny story. In more ways than one.

You are far too daft to realize this, but even though you said, “There has never been a scrap of evidence, ever, to support such magic hoodoo,” you just linked to a story which explains everything. Yes, there is a fire-breathing dragon. You have probably noticed it, many times. And you’ve chosen to deny that it exists. Why? Because you need to not believe in the dragon. Your disbelief is vital to your self-identity.

Make sense? Didn’t think so. Heck, sometimes I feel like I’m standing onstage at a Klan rally, trying to explain that some minority groups aren’t criminals. Doesn’t matter that my skin is white as snow – if I’m not careful, they’ll crucify me.

Why do I remain on the stage? I dunno. Maybe because I like the attention. Maybe because I crave danger. Or maybe, it’s because I can’t get to sleep. :smack: