I once worked with a creepy guy who nobody really cared for. He was nice enough and smart but his work ethic was not so sound and he just had a bit of an attitude.
We worked at a place that hired anybody, convicted felons, people who had been fired from every job they had, and even sex offenders.
He was only 21 but claimed he had served in the Marines and Navy. I found out that he had only served in the Navy as a medic but since they support the Marines then he was entitled to say he served in both.
ANYWAYS, he was bragging about how he got kicked out of the service. Only he got an HONORABLE discharge. It was for inappropriate touching I guess.
Now, is this even possible? How much of this guy’s story is BS?
Obviously he screwed up or he wouldn’t be working at a place that hired ANYBODY WHO APPLIED. I would assume he lost his veterans’ benefits, right?
Another guy who worked there as a supervisor who had also been in the service and I knew wasn’t full of shit said that the other guy was trying to do well there since no one else wanted him. I would assume that the guy had some sort of a felon status that made him very undesirable as an employee?
I knew a guy like this, very likable, friendly and personable but a habitual liar and drug addict who didn’t make it through Marine boot camp and still told everyone he served as a Marine. He was charming as long as he was getting something he wanted like free drinks and attention. Even got a Marine Corps tattoo and would go into bars and claim he served in the first Gulf war and swap stories with real vets. He received a medical or general discharge because he had knee problems that occurred during boot camp training. Perhaps this is what happened to your guy.
I stopped hanging out with this guy due to the way he presented himself as a fighting Marine to actual vets. Made me sick to listen to his lies.
What do you need to do to get a dishonorable discharge? Probably a certain level of serious offense? I assume they have a process for guys where, they haven’t done anything criminally wrong like insubordination or theft or serious assault, but the brass consider “you know, this guy just will never fit in…”
From what I saw that process went: article 15 after article 15, wretched duty, poor reviews effectively barring promotion–misfit admits defeat at re-enlistment time (perhaps after a candid discussion with the commander) and doesn’t renew his enlistment.
There seems, to me at least, a common misconception regarding separation from the US Armed Forces. People seem to think that honorable discharge is one thing. It’s not. It’s two things:
[ul][li]Type of separation[/li][li]Character of service[/ul][/li]
There is a matrix the military uses to determine what goes into each of those two blocks on the separation document (DD Form 214 is one such document). Bad Conduct and Dishonorable can only be awarded (nice military euphemism, huh?) as part of a sentence ordered by a court-martial. The other choices for character of service that I can recall at the moment are General and Other Than Honorable. The choices for type of separation, again just from what I can recall at the moment, are Discharge, Release From Active Duty Transferred to X, where X is one of the various Reserve components (IRR, Fleet Reserve, National Guard, etc.).
For “inappropriate touching,” I seriously doubt the individual the OP’s discussing managed to get separated with honorable, especially if he were discharged prior to completing his eight years military service obligation.
US military discharges are divided into Administrative and Punitive discharges. The Punitive discharges are the Dishonorable Discharge and the Bad Conduct Discharge (aka “Big Chicken Dinner”), which is not as serious as a DD but is still pretty bad. Punitive discharges can only happen after a conviction by a court-martial. No court-martial, no punitive discharge. The worst you can get without a court martial is an Other Than Honorable discharge, but there is a right to an administrative review. The point of an administrative discharge is that commanders, etc. can give the discharge based on performance appraisals and whatnot.
The general sense among the public seems to be that a Dishonorable Discharge is equivalent to a felony conviction in civilian criminal court, in the sense that people with DD’s are deemed to be serious and potentially dangerous offenders rather than people who just really weren’t well suited for the military. However, since a DD can only come after a court-marital, you know well in advance that it’s coming. You don’t get called into the Colonel’s office one day and told, “Sergeant, I’m not happy with your performance. Dishonorable discharge!”
I’m wondering why the OP him/herself was working at a place like that. Were you new to the area, or really desperate for a job, or what? And what kind of place was it?
It takes a Court Martial to get a DD. Probably a BCD too. This guy could have made just enough of a pain in the ass of himself that it was easier for the Navy/Marine Corps to just get rid of him. Oh, in the Navy/MC, they don’t have Article 15s. They have Captain’s Masts. It’s the same Non-Judicial Punishment. So they gave him an Administrative or General discharge. It’s not exactly an Honorable Discharge, but those are Discharges under Honorable Conditions, so he’d have the same rights, benefits, and privileges as someone with a HD.
As mentioned above by me along with at least one other poster, a Bad Conduct Discharge, just as a Dishonorable Discharge, can only be ordered by a court-martial.
Nope. All the US Armed Forces are big enough and experienced enough in dealing with PITA personnel to know how to go about removing someone from the Armed Forces. Oddly enough, though, it’s never all that easy: courts-martial require evidence, time, and legal types. Administrative Separations require evidence, time, and legal types. Both courts-martial and ADSEPs require a few other things, of course.
Of course it’s the same NJP. It’s an administrative procedure under Article 15 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The Navy and the Marine Corps most certainly do have Article 15. The military jargon for it differs, though, among the services.
I don’t know the slang used by the other services.
Certain “rights, benefits, and privileges” are contingent upon length of service and/or characterization of separation so, no, they’e not the same. That, of course, is the reason for the difference.
I did not know (Canadian, here) that a USA Dishonorable Discharge implied a court martial. I assumed it was some sort of egregious behaviour where someone crossed a line, akin to “fired with cause”. Learn something new every day…
So what is the process to get rid of a Gomer Pyle or a McHale Navy walking bucket of screw-up? Do you sit around waiting for a screw-up big enough to toss, or does someone evaluate him and say “we shouldn’t let this guy anywhere near lethal weapons, give him a handshake and a ticket home”?
I know my brother said the Canadian army would have a process to simply say during boot camp, “sorry but you’re not for us”. Of course, he said they had quite a few soldiers quit when they suddenly realized around the time of Serbia that their career now involved the serous risk of being shot at… very diferent than the US forces.
Dishonorable Discharge implies court-martial just as being a prisoner in federal prison implies having been sentenced by a court. Same thing: result of a court sentence.
Member of the US Armed Forces are evaluated on a regular basis. Depending on the results of that evaluation, someone may be subjected to what’s currently referred to as “Perform to Serve”. Don’t improve your performance and you’ll be separated through an administrative procedure.
The US has something called “Entry Level Separation”. Prior to a certain number of days of service, one may be separated through that program.
Not sure why it matters but I started there because I saw they paid well and had a favorable rotating shift schedule. I didn’t know it employed such a unique cross section of people. I had started a side business and the Monday through Friday job I had before conflicted with it. I didn’t work there for very long. I didn’t mind working there but management sucked and they were very stingy about vacation or any kind of time off. This was at a dairy processing facility. I moved on to a much better paying job with better vacation and benefits. Better management and I had to pass a background check to get the job so I don’t work with any convicted felons. Still have the same handy work schedule to operate my side business.
Btw, I looked this guy up on FB and he has a picture of himself wearing a bunch occupations crap signifying his support for the armed services. A friend comments, “weren’t you kicked out?” Douchebag says, “yes, with an honorable discharge, but can’t I still support the troops?”
This is correct. A general discharge under honorable conditions was used extensively during “project flush” back in the early 80s. People who were just malcontents, who walked the line between obeying and flaunting orders, people who were a disruptive influence to good order and discipline, etc., were identified and processed out without bad paper. As a senior petty officer, it was sort of like being on a hit squad to get rid of the shitbirds.
Ask to see their DD Form 214 “Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty” either the long or short version. Either will tell what kind of discharge.