Kids left in cars - new laws needed?

Great Debates
41

I have two daughters, ages 3 and 4. I consider myself I damn good parent. Everyone I know considers me a damn good parent. Unfortunately, I once found myself in a position that caused me to fear that the people in the ER might report me to DHS. When my older daughter was two she began sleeping in a toddler bed. The first week was uneventful. One night we put the girls to bed and settled in on the couch to watch a movie. Five minutes later, blood-curdling screams erupt from the bedroom. We race into the room, flip on the light, and Chloe is standing in the middle of the floor, blood dripping down her chin, soaking her nightgown. She had crept out of bed and tripped over Big Bird (apparently he was in on the escape attempt), bashing her mouth on the railing of her bed. It knocked her two top front teeth loose and gashed open her lower lip, necessitating a midnight trip to the ER. I was certain I’d be arrested. How on earth could I have let this happen to my child? I cried all night. I was sick with guilt and anger that I hadn’t “done something” to prevent the accident.

So I thought about it. And thought about it, and thought some more. And I realized that short of handcuffing her to me locked inside a cotton-lined box, that I could have done nothing. I had tucked her safely into bed, and was sitting less than 30 feet away when the accident occured. I could not be a more watchful, vigilant parent. My husband and I do everything we can to minimize the risks to our kids, and that’s all we can do. They are gonna have accidents, they are gonna get hurt, and we’re gonna cry along with them. That’s the way it happens. Not just to me, but to every single person who has kids.

I don’t leave my kids in the car. I think anyone who “forgets” about having kids in the car is negligent. But I think some of us can get a little smug and self-righteous when it comes to saying things like “I am a spectacular parent, and have ESP and/or child radar, and my children will never be harmed under my watchful eye because of A.), B.), and C.)”. I sincerely hope no harm comes to anyone’s children, but chances are they’ll get hurt once or twice before they go off to college. Everyone has to sleep sometimes, and humans are fallible.

42

I have two daughters, ages 3 and 4. I consider myself I damn good parent. Everyone I know considers me a damn good parent. Unfortunately, I once found myself in a position that caused me to fear that the people in the ER might report me to DHS. When my older daughter was two she began sleeping in a toddler bed. The first week was uneventful. One night we put the girls to bed and settled in on the couch to watch a movie. Five minutes later, blood-curdling screams erupt from the bedroom. We race into the room, flip on the light, and Chloe is standing in the middle of the floor, blood dripping down her chin, soaking her nightgown. She had crept out of bed and tripped over Big Bird (apparently he was in on the escape attempt), bashing her mouth on the railing of her bed. It knocked her two top front teeth loose and gashed open her lower lip, necessitating a midnight trip to the ER. I was certain I’d be arrested. How on earth could I have let this happen to my child? I cried all night. I was sick with guilt and anger that I hadn’t “done something” to prevent the accident.

So I thought about it. And thought about it, and thought some more. And I realized that short of handcuffing her to me locked inside a cotton-lined box, that I could have done nothing. I had tucked her safely into bed, and was sitting less than 30 feet away when the accident occured. I could not be a more watchful, vigilant parent. My husband and I do everything we can to minimize the risks to our kids, and that’s all we can do. They are gonna have accidents, they are gonna get hurt, and we’re gonna cry along with them. That’s the way it happens. Not just to me, but to every single person who has kids.

I don’t leave my kids in the car. I think anyone who “forgets” about having kids in the car is negligent. But I think some of us can get a little smug and self-righteous when it comes to saying things like “I am a spectacular parent, and have ESP and/or child radar, and my children will never be harmed under my watchful eye because of A.), B.), and C.)”. I sincerely hope no harm comes to anyone’s children, but chances are they’ll get hurt once or twice before they go off to college. Everyone has to sleep sometimes, and humans are fallible.

43

jane:

Yes, I agree with you completely. The unforseen, or the unlikely is bound to catch you from time to time. Not all accidents can be avoided are forseeable or are preventable.

Who would have known Big Bird would betray you?

But an unlikely accident as you describe is a different thing than forgetting you have kids and leaving them in the car.

I mean it’s like “Oooops. They starved to death. I guess I frogot to feed them.”

44

<<Also, I’m going to clue some folks in - you can’t take 3 babies (i.e. triplets) in with you while paying for gas. >>

No, but every major service station I’ve ever stopped for gas has a sign reading “If you need assistance, honk horn twice.”

If I had two or three young children with me, I’d either pay at the pump or honk the horn. A friend of mine has six children, four of them are 3, 1 1/2, and twins under a year old, and she does this.

Corr

45

OK, Scylla, I agree with the vast majority of your opinion – but man, I am glad I am not your kid. Because I sense that you have this kid under so much wraps that there is not a chance in friggen’ hell he/she will grow up to be a normal adult with a mind of his own.

Based on your previous examples above, I can’t believe you say this. You mean you don’t cut your kid’s food into tiny bits to totally remove the chance of choking? You don’t have her walking around in a helmet with knee and elbow pads? What kind of parent are you?

Bullshit, plain and simple.

46

Yes. I worry about that as well. She is still though to little to take responsible for going across a parking lot as she’s only 18 months old so I’m not worried about stifling her on this count. I am overprotective and I do have to restrain myself when she’s playing with other children and let her learn life’s lessons on her own and be her own person. What I do is my best to make sure that she learns and achieves responsibilities as she’s prepared for them.

I think it’ll work out ok, but fully admit that I tend towards the overprotective. I think I have it under control though, and I think it’s a better attitude than being careless, especially at her vulnerable state as not even a 2 year old. There really isn’t a lot she can do on her own, and toddlers don’t have an awful lot of built in common sense about things like pools and poisons and driving cars and such.

And yet I said it. Being too overprotective has it’s own consequences that I would like to avoid. I’m trying to seek the middle ground here.

You’ll have to elaborate if you wish to make an argument. It makes sense to me as I wrote it.

47

OK, your kid is 18mon old? I guess there is no such thing as being overprotective of an 18m old baby <g>.

And I am glad to see you are at least aware that you may be a bit on the overprotective side. What I am worried about is that you are going to come down on yourself like a ton of bricks when something does go wrong: have you convinced yourself that by doing all these things that you can prevent anything bad from happening to your child? Because you can’t (see below).

You’ll have to elaborate if you wish to make an argument. It makes sense to me as I wrote it. **
[/QUOTE]

OK that was maybe a bit direct. What I am trying to say is that you and your child do not live in a vacuum. You may be the best driver in the world – but that doesn’t mean that the Joe-Blow Sixpacks of the world won’t blow through a stop sign. You may never leave knives and stuff lying about - but that doesn’t mean that Cousin McGee from Tenessee doesn’t leave one lying around.

Bumps and bruises never hurt anyone, and kids are far, far more likely to learn early by one or two scrapes - and thus reduce the likelihood of a bigger, more serious accident happening later.

Protect your child by giving him enough information to protect himself.

48

I’ll preface this by saying that I am not a parent, although I hope to become one when the time is right for me.

Accidents do happen. Perhaps a seven y.o. falls out of bed and whacks her head. Is the parent negligent for not putting the kid to sleep in a bed with rails? If the kid doesn’t have a pattern of injuring herself in bed, then I’d say that the answer is “no”. Sleeping in a bed without rails does not have a high likelihood of injury to a kid who has control over her body, like most seven y.o.s

However, there are other situations that we know have a much higher likelihood of injury. It is negligent to let your toddler near the silverware drawer because there is usually a high risk of injury if a toddler sticks her hand in there. Same with a hot stove.

I have a seven y.o cousin who acts more like a one y.o. as a result of Down Syndrome. Can you imagine the kind of trouble that a one year old in a seven year old’s body could get himself into? That’s why my aunt and uncle have baby gates up and shut the doors to any rooms not being used at any one time. He cannot drown in the toilet because the bathroom door is closed. He cannot get into the kitchen as a result of baby gates. The only rooms he can get into are those rooms in which an adult is hanging out. There’s thingamajigs over the outlets, curtain strings tied up, etc. Sure it’s a major pain in the ass, but to my knowledge, the kid hasn’t ever hurt himself, or had to potential to, beyond some minor bumps and bruises. Plus, you owe it to the kid if you’ve decided to become a parent.

As for leaving a kid (or kids) in a car…Yeah, my parents did it with my sister and me, but not often or for long periods, and not until we were old enough to open and close the windows and scream/run for help if we needed it. Neither of us were left in the car without adult supervision as babies or toddlers. Leaving an infant in a car to go get gas or milk is foolhardy. Too many things could go wrong, as is evidenced by many parents who “just looked away for a second”. If you need to get gas, do what the other posts have suggested. If you just need milk or whatever, get a cart anyway so that you can put the kids in it.

As for parents who forget their kids in the backseat - don’t they have rearview mirrors? Wouldn’t they at least happen to catch a glimpse of the kid, just by chance? Or hear something? Breathing, anything. I mean, I can’t figure how someone could forget their kid in the first place, especially a baby/toddler. Judging from what I’ve seen, those suckers need such intense and constant care that I cannot imagine how they could slip from the front of a parent’s mind, not matter how tired that parent is.

A thing that really horrifies my friends and I is if we’re walking along the street (either Long Island or in NYC)and see some little kids - a 3 y.o. & a 5 y.o., let’s say -running along, seemingly by themselves. Where the hell is the kids’ guardian? Then about a minute later, we pass a person (typically a woman, in my experience)about a half block down, occasionally yelling for the kids to slow up, usually bullshitting with someone. This truly scares me. More than once I’ve asked a kid, “Is your mommy here with you?”, just in case. It scares me that I ever feel like I ought to do that.

All that having been said, I do think that a neglect charge is sufficient. Whether the parent forgot or purposefully left the kid, the kid was still neglected. Those who say that the law is too stiff in some cases forget about police discretion, as well as the discretion of the D.A. In other words, if the kid ends up allright, perhaps no charges will be filed. I think, though, that the parent ought to be charged with neglect if he/she forgets about the whereabouts of his own offspring. Maybe I’ll feel differently when I’m a parent.

49

Another kid died today, as a result of being left in a car. It was one of three kids who all died in the same car, the children of two different mothers, who left them there for some unknown reason.

Scylla, you are always very eloquent and I wish I was.

My child may very well have an accident or ten during his toddler years. So far, he has tripped and split his lip, hit his head on the coffe table while under it, and pinched various fingers. But leaving my kid in the car is not an accident! Period.

50

So you think she left the kid in there on purpose?

I completely understand Scylla and those who are dumbfounded by this, but I also see how it could happen. It could happen because some people are irresponsible, ignorant or both, not because they are malicious or inherently bad people. I do feel sorry for the mother, I don’t equate her with a someone who is a child abuser. I also believe the punishment is correct.

51

You people don’t live in Minnesota. Self service gas stations attached to convience stores are about all that exist here. There are no filling stations and full service service stations are few and far between. I have NEVER seen a “honk if you need service” sign. We do have pay at the pump at many stations now (in the last year or so in my neighborhood), which is how I get my gas. I actually arrange my life so I’m almost never at the gas station with my kids.

52

And you’ve never pushed a stroller through a Minnesota winter - (impossible through my daycare parking lot, not that I didn’t try). Also, the stroller then needs to be folded and stuck in the trunk - do you know there are busybodies who will tell you how unsafe it is to leave you child unattended, snapped into her carseat, while you fold the DAMN STROLLER! I also tried asking the daycare staff to help (which they could only do if they had extra staff, wonderful on those occations where possible). I’ve carried two kids out on hips (leaving no hands free to open doors with, which means one of my dearest has to stand in the parking lot without my hand on them while I open the door.) I tried four slings or other baby holders to hold my daughter so I’d have hands free with my son - I wasn’t comfortable with any of them - I always felt like she was going to fall out.

You know, there are child snatchers out there. I’m far more concerned about the kids getting run over in the parking lot than getting snatched. This means that I was more likely to leave my 6 month old daughter sitting behind the locked day care door in her carrier in the lobby while putting my six month old son into the car, then locking the car, then darting (as fast as humanly possible) in and grabbing my daughter and putting her in her carseat. In a Minnesota winter we weren’t risking the current “locked in car” problem, and avoiding the “toddler escapes” problem - which is much scarier for me. You weigh your risks, you take your risks. You do what you need to to get through the day.

Scylla, I would recommend not breeding again until your daughter is much older. Zone defense sucks and doesn’t fit your parenting style.

53

Dangerosa:

We’re planning on having another but would like to have them seperated by at least three years for these very reasons.

Oh, and jogging strollers have those really big wheels which go throught the snow pretty decently.

And is it possible to avoid the whole parking lot, and park illegally just for a second in front of the entrance when you get your kids? Screw the ticket.

54

Scylla One more thing I thought of on the way home last night -
you’ve regaled us with your tales of how you and your wife each got into some pickle or another ending with bumps, bruises, large objects crushing your chest.

And prior to each of those events, you believed that you’d correctly assessed the potential for harm.

And, as one person pointed out - there’s always a first time (ie - ‘I didn’t know she could open that door’). I remember when my son was 10 months old. I saw him with a piece of hard candy in his mouth that I’d not given him. The only hard candy in the house was in a dish that was on a shelf nearly 5 feet high. I watched in amazement as my toddler:

  1. Went to an adjoining room
  2. Pulled a chair away from the dining room table
  3. Pushed that chair up next to the shelf unit
  4. Climbed up on the chair
  5. Got the piece of candy, unwrapped it, popped it in his mouth.
  6. (and this is one of the many excellent reasons he’s an only child) then put the chair back

Prior to that event I would have sworn that something left on top of a shelf that was at my shoulder level would have been safe from my son. Obviously, I was mistaken.

I believe (and most folks who have been with me have said so) that I’m a great parent. My son has managed to get all the way to 17 years old, still makes mistakes ya know.

Point being that no one. NO ONE can possible forsee all potential events and hazards and protect against them. We do the best to foresee and deal with the ones we can. And that’s all any of us can do. the most recent child in car story involved having an older child watching some younger children who then were able to get into an unlocked car and died. It is common and often unpreventable to have an older child watching younger ones.

Again, my point is that laws already exist for circumstances where negligence, ended in death. We don’t need additional leglislation to spell out each and every potential circumstance that may end in tragedy.

55

Well, its a moot point now, neither will even sit in a stroller any longer. My son is almost three and walks to the car, opens the door and lets himself in. He now finds streets and parking lots “scary,” a development I can’t say I’ve discouraged. My daughter is almost two, and not nearly the “flight risk” my son was when he was that age. While he won’t ride in a stroller because he’d rather walk, she would be happiest if she grew as a tumor off my right hip. The daycare parking lot was right in front of the door (think suburban daycare center), well lighted, with the only people going in and out parents of other small children. The parking lot (as harried parents pick up their kids) can be dangerous, but leaving your kids in a car for a few seconds is really low risk - as long as it isn’t hot out and the summer “locked in a car” problem hits. And when I’m talking about darting back inside, I’m talking about 15 steps.

I’d intended on having my kids around two years apart for the same reasons - one pretty independant before the other gets too mobile - things don’t always work out as planned. The first one never arrived in the traditional manner, and we chose to adopt from Korea to become parents. Of course, the UL has some truth in it “all you have to do to get pregnant is adopt,” and we went from 0 to 2 in seven months.

(And I have a feeling that anyone who lets their daughter wear their diaper as a hat in a restaurant isn’t being nearly as anal a parent as you are letting on. That was you, wasn’t it?)

56

Just asking for a little clarification: is it that dangerous or a realistic risk that your baby will be abducted in the US?

We just visited the US, stopped in a very small town in S. Dakota to go into an ice cream shop to buy take out pie. One car in the parking lot (mine), big front store window, going from car to pie counter entailed perhaps 2 seconds of not being able to see into the car and China bambina sleeping in the baby seat, a nice 75 degrees and car windows down. I was all for waking up China bambina and my wife was like “are you frickin’ crazy, what’s going to happen to her here?”

I didn’t really have a good answer except “you never leave a child unattended.”

57

Wring:

We are not talking about eliminating all risk. We are talking about basic prudence. Had your son acquired the rock candy by shooting it off the top shelf with the loaded gun you left on the floor than we might have a problem and call into question your parenting skills.

58

Um. “every parent knows or should know that small hard candies are choking hazards and should never be where small children can get at them”. Obviously (I hope) I felt that I had taken adequate steps to safeguard my son. Obviously, I was wrong, thankfully in my case w/o tragic results, but, had the worst happened, I can easily imagine you over there chastizing the errant parent with “every parent should know about choking hazards” etc.

See? Did I take what I felt to be reasonale precautions? yes. In hindsite, they were less than adequate. Your stance to me here indicates that you seemed to have thought that my precautions were adequate. But again, obviously, they weren’t. I’m concerned that another 'Scylla would have pointed out "gee, your son had demonstrated early on that he was quickly advancing physically, therefore you had reason to assume that he may have gotten to the point, or would quickly be there, that he’d be able to put together chair + standing on it = I can reach taller things.

59

Yeah, it happens quite a bit. But that’s not what we’re talking about here.

My point is this- as a parent, you have certain responsibilities which must be paramount to all others in your life- the care, feeding and protection of that infant. I’m sorry if you didn’t know that going in, or didn’t sign up for that kind of life-change, but too bad.

Forgetting your child in the car is bad parenting, or worse. You may not be a bad parent all the time, but you’re sure having a bad parent moment, I guess. I’m sorry if you didn’t mean to, but if you have caused the brain injury or death of a child, you will have consequences, and that’s ok with me.

60

Yeah and the consequences are YOUR CHILD IS DEAD OR BRAIN DAMAGED. Is there really anything we can do that gives greater consequences than this? Do we really think that by passing a law, this will be a bigger deterrant to forgetful parents than having a DEAD KID!

“I have to remember not to leave the kid in the car today, that new law is effective. Today I’d face prosecution, yesterday I’d just have killed my own child.”