A guy I used to work with liked killing coyotes to, he said, help out the poor ranchers. Bullshit.
I asked him what he did with the coyotes after he killed them. He said he left them there because that was “nature’s way”. Bullshit.
He said killing coyotes was a real challenge. Bullshit.
My opinion is pretty obvious. (I am not anti-hunter.)
What’s your’s?
Should I have put this in GD?
Peace,
mangeorge
I’m not saying one way or another. I’ll ask this though, is man not a part of nature?
Only obliquely. We’re not really, not in the way a coyote is. But I don’t want to rehash that arguement. We are, though, one of the few animals who kills but doesn’t eat. And we are the only ones who kill from a nice safe distance.
He might not be doing it to help the ranchers, but he probably is helping out the native canines. Coyotes have spread to nearly every state in the continental US and because of their nature, they’re outcompeting wolves and foxes who have more finicky habitat and diet requirements. It’s humans fault that they’re everywhere now, because we’ve killed off - both through hunting and removal of habitat- most of our wolves and mountain lions, which leaves the coyote free to move into where the wolves and mountain lions used to live.
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/kids/creature_feature/0005/coyote2.html
www.pulseplanet.com/archive/Jul00/2194.html
Any excuse to shoot something…Typical Killers Logic
I could see myself as a protector of Baby Seals, Pearched on top of an Iceberg with every Hi -Tech weapon at my disposal. The Seal Pups are born, moms are close by suckling and caring for their newborns. A Vessel anchors nearby,many men, clubs in-hand, some with rifles to ward off Polar Bears, advance toward the defenseless pups. When they get within 50ft. of those pups, all hell breaks loose. I open up on the lookouts with guns first, then the clubbers then the Vessel. The little pups are now safe again except from Polar Bears.
Yep.
Despite being native to the US, coyotes may well need to have their numbers culled. The same thing happens with kangaroos here. Although they belong in the local ecosystem more than we humans do, their numbers have grown incredibly since the arrival of European settlers. So they get shot (the kangaroos, that is).
Real Men Don’t Kill Coyotes, so say the Red Hot Chili Peppers.
Did you ask him why he considers it a real challenge?
That the guy just leaves the coyotes where he shoots them makes me suspicious of whether he’s really doing this for the ranchers. I know in some places where coyotes do need to be culled there is some sort of reward system for shooting them. I don’t know how universal this is, but in the case I know of, the hunter had to cut off the coyote’s ears to prove he killed it.
I’d heard something about this awhile back, but I wasn’t sure exactly what to make of it. In this area, there are lots and lots of sheep ranchers, and lots of coyotes.
From what I recall, randomly killing coyotes doesn’t necessarily help control their population, it could actually end up increasing their numbers, as they’ll give birth to more pups to compensate.
Unfortunatley for ranchers, the methods they found to be most helpful were banned by opposition from animal welfare groups, from what I understand.
Do a search for the Livestock Protection Collar - there are lots of pro and con sites and opinions. It was used succesfully for a bit in Norhtern California, and was banned by voters. It’s still used in many countries, and other states in the US.
As for your friend, I don’t think I’d call bullshit if he actually thinks he’s helping ranchers. And he very well might.
It is complete bullshit. What the hell did the rancher ever do for him? Ranchers are not poor, and if they are, maybe they should get a fucking clue and find another line of work. I’m tired of the ranchers claiming that they have a ‘unique western way of life’ that needs to be preserved to protect our ‘heritage’, whatever that is. Fuck that, children working in coal mines used to be part of the our ‘heritage’ too, but I don’t see anyone trying to bring that back.
And since we’re on the topic, I’m sick and tired of ranchers bitching about the reintroduction of the wolf. Fuck them. Not only should they have to put up with the reintroduction of the wolf, but since the wolf was eradicated by ranchers (and by the government on behalf of the ranchers) they really ought to be paying for it too. Coal companies have to pay for restoring the land that they have strip mined, why can these whiny ranchers do the same thing?
But yeah, he’s just getting his kicks by killing things.
He doesn’t work there anymore, but he said that coyotes are timid. Right, to a distance they feel is safe. What. 30-40 yards at most and in the open? Then they stand there and watch you. Sometimes even sitting down.
Coyotes are active in the very early morning. If you’re out in their habitat at that time you’ll see them and be able to pick them off without much trouble at all. If you sit quietly, and don’t shoot them, they’ll often come pretty close and investigate you.
[Slight Hijack]
With this I agree. Here in Australia (and in the US too) we have all sorts of benefit drives to “help the farmers” in times of drought. Yet, I have seen the weather affect other businesses too. I used to live at Bondi Beach, and one unusually wet summer in the early 80s kept the crowds away, and many beachfront businesses near hit the wall. Yet, nobody would do a “help the store owners” drive.
A ranch is a hardnosed business. If a rancher goes broke, it is no different to a store keeper going broke. Certainly not a charity cause.
Well, as we speak a small town outside of my hometown is having it’s annual coyote shooting contest. These contests are kind of a western tradition (not that I would defend that).
Anyway:
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Leaving a dead coyote where you killed isn’t so much “nature’s way” as it a recognition that pelt prices for coyotes have dropped down to where it isn’t worth the trouble of skinning them, preserving the pelt and taking it in to get money. Back in the late '80’s a PRIME pelt would bring $80 and most pelts would bring around $40 - $60. That’s assuming a 1 shot kill, a good winter pelt and a good skinning job. The pelts were used for fur. I did a quick Google and pelts for collectors (tanned, etc) are bringing $100-$130 today. That probably means a maximum price of $40 for a raw skinned pelt. Which will take a good skinner 20-30 minutes.
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Coyotes can be tough to kill because they are smart and cautious. The more you hunt them, the more cautious they get. Look at the Cabellas or other outdoor catalogs and you will see a variety of coyote calls, recordings, etc. Once coyotes realize that vehicles = shooting, they get real shy and won’t consistently come in range of rifle. Killing coyotes is a challenge.
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I don’t have a cite but I do recall studies showing that killing coyotes causes a slight population crash, followed by larger litter. Similarly, there is a correlation between prey numbers (rabbits, gophers, pheasents, etc.) and coyotes. Years that have climatic conditions which equal more prey surviving are followed by years with a greater coyote population.
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The “help the farmers” thing is tradition/bullshit, not fact. You can’t wipe out all the coyotes, but people still think you can. See number 3 above. Irregardless, there are still a number of companies who sell trips to Montana in which you spend your time shooting coyotes, gophers and prairie dogs. But if annilhation worked, they would be out of business, no?
Your former cow-orker just likes killing coyotes. It’s not hunting, it’s “sport shooting”. And I’m not going to defend that, though shooting gophers is fun.
Whistlepig
Uh, I thought this was posted in the Pit, but it looks like I was wrong.
Sorry about my rant.
Absolutely. When’s the last time you ever heard of someone organizing a “Cobbler’s Aid” concert.
I like Willy Nelson, BTW.
For smaller flocks on limited pastures, probably the most effective anti-predation device are guard dogs ( NOT herd dogs, but sheep-shaped and sized, properly reared and trained European breeds like the komondor, kuvasz, sharplaninenc, or maremma ). They’re a pricey investment though and apparently less effective on large spread out rangelands, where they can’t keep a close eye on a less concentrated herd.
Just shooting coyotes might be a necessity from time to time, but for reasons mentioned probably isn’t a long-term solution in many situations. And poisons and traps have some of the same flaws and introduce another set of environmental complications ( and they certainly aren’t compatible with guard dogs ).
- Tamerlane
Killing coyotes was a very popular fun hobby when I was a youngster. Many were also killed for their coats. Still, I had no trouble observing them except when their numbers were really low due to lack of prey, and even then I could spot a few when I was patient. Just not in the numbers that were around in good years. Coyotes populations adjust quickly to conditions, faster I think than most other predators. Probably due to the fact that they eat mostly small rodents, whose populations can vary greatly.
Like I said, they would feel safe at what they saw as a long way off. Their camo was adequate I guess, but they would always move, giving themselves away. Their territory was mostly open, with little cover. Except when they were denned up, of course. Could be that’s when the hunters are looking for them?
They are great fun to watch.
We have a similar practice in the UK, only the farmers need help getting rid of foxes, not coyotes.
We don’t shoot them either. A bunch of people get all dressd up and set a bunch of hounds on the trail of a fox. The bunch of people follow on horesback. Sometimes the fox will run itself to death. Sometimes the fox will be caught by the hounds and ripped to shreads. Sometimes the fox will escape.
Seems like a pretty inefficient way to help solve the farmers problem to me.
Are you confusing coyotes with wolves? I’m a little vague on this, but I think herders will keep the quite small and unaggressive coyotes away. There are a lot of sheep near where I was raised and the shepherds had a lot of border collies, etc.
I don’t think I like the topic of this thread.
No sir, I don’t like it.