I just went and saw the new Jet Li movie “Kiss of the Dragon.” In it, Jet Li uses small needles that he sticks into people at specific points to do a variety of things. With them he induces paralysis, sleep, and even a very painful death in one case.
Does anyone know how realistic it is to do such things with a single needle? If so, where can I learn?
Similaryly, in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, a couple of the characters use a series of strikes to the body to cause paralysis, and then to remove it. Does any of that have a basis in reality?
Welcome to the SDMB, and thank you for posting your comment.
This message board is divided into several different fora, each with a specific purpose. Please read the description of each forum at the message board home page.
Since this question doesn’t seem related to any one Straight Dope column in particular, I will move it to our «General Questions» forum, where it will be watched over with the tender solicitude of my colleagues manhattan, Chronos and JillGat.
I believe this is in the wrong forum. But I’ll answer anyway.
The sticking needles is using acupuncture. The “theory” of acupuncture relies on metaphysical pathways through the body for some type of “energy” called chi or ki or qi (variations in spelling). This energy supposedly flows through the body through these pathways separate from the nervous system, and can be manipulated via the insertion of the needles. Alternatively, supposedly martial arts masters are able to learn how to focus this energy and thus accomplish amazing feats.
Note that there is no scientific justification (i.e. documented and repeatable evidence) of the claims of acupuncture or of a chi system. There is some questionable evidence about using acupuncture in pain relief, but so far has been unable to be separated from placebo effect.
The “pressure points” notion is a similar thing using acupressure instead of acupuncture. An alternative “contemporary interpretation” of acupuncture and acupressure is they tap into the nervous system, but that has not been demonstrated, either. This use of pressure points shows up in the TV show “Xena: Warrior Princess” as a mystical technique she employs called “the pinch”. Given the feats accomplished in that show (levitating, jumping long distances, running up walls, etc), that certainly isn’t much to go on.
To the moderator, thank you for putting my post in the right place. I’ll pay more attention next time.
As far as chi and such, I have heard fragments about it before. I guess I should have been more specific in my question. I was wondering if a thing as dramatic as paralysis is possible with a single needle. I realise that acupuncture is in use in some places as a means of pain and stress relief. And I have seen enough television and movies to know that a lot of people might like us to think that so much more is also possible. I suppose I’m just looking for a source a bit more reliable than Hollywood to say how much really is feasable.
And, of course, if anyone knows where to learn such techniques, I’m very interested.
As far as I know, acupuncture and acupressure are aspects of traditional chinese medicine, as are chi kung (or qigong or any of the other various spellings), tai chi (repeat disclaimer regarding various westernizations of Chinese language), and perhaps moxibustion, though I’m not sure about that one. If you really want to learn, I recommend studying Chinese for a while, then moving on over there and befriending septuagenarians indiscriminately, in the hopes of finding a contact who can help you out. There are probably teachers in whatever country you’re from (I’m assuming you’re not in China), but it’s been my experience that most people who claim to be teaching “ancient Chinese secrets” are really only adept at the secret of parting fools and money.
Just talked about this with my Chinese friend and hardcore kung fu practioner and movie buff (more so the movie buff than the practitioner, but oh well).
According to her, in the movie Li was employing more of a kung fu technique than a pure accupuncture technique. For even the “simple” stuff (sleep, paralysis, etc.), more needles would be needed. OTOH, kung fu is supposed to be able to cause this with a single blow/needle (as seen in KotD and CT,HD). Dunno what the rationale is supposed to be, but it is supposed to work, in theory (though she said the guy’d probably just bleed out and collapse, dead, then go into a little seizure)…
As for accupuncture… It’s not much of a testimonial for its efficacy or anything but my company’s old insurance provider covered acupuncture treatments, up to 12/year. Unfortunately, lazy ass that I am, I never got to take 'em up on it. Sounds cool, though after watching KotD, I must admit that I’m a little less eager to go…
Having a friend of mine in the acupuncture and chinese medicine biz, the stuff seen in the movie was just over-the-top fantasy. However, with several needles in the proper points you can do a lot of cool stuff such as deaden pain, stimulate hunger, suppress cravings, relax muscles, etc. It is even possible to operate on someone with accupuncture suppression instead of anesthesia.
Supposedly, you can also do nasty dangerous stuff like induce organ failure, cause pain or seziurs, and even kill someone (though only over a long period of time).
I have had 2 members of my family easily kick smoking with acupuncture when no other remedies worked.
It says all.
I have seen so many kongfu movies, they are just bull…,
but very interesting tho.
Here’s a cite that you can purchase most of the famous movies based on popular kongfu novels. http://store.yahoo.com/chinesemall-com/tvmovser1.html
Seriously, though, why wouldn’t you be able to kill someone by poking needles into them? Put one straight through the heart, or through an eye socket or ear into the brain, and it should be fairly easy to kill someone.
The evidence on accupuncture is contradictory. Unca Cecil’s got a couple of columns on the subject. The first one says it works, but no one knows why. The second one says it doesn’t. I’ve never used accupuncture, but I have used accupressure, which is essentially the same thing, only you push on the points, rather than sticking a needle into them. Its worked for me. You don’t have to study Chinese to learn about accupuncture, as there’s several schools in the US that teach it. A really good book on the subject is A Barefoot Doctor’s Manual. Its out of print now, so finding a copy may be hard, but its an English translation of the “doctor’s” manual the Communists handed out in China shortly after the revolution. It contains not only information (highly detailed, I might add) on accupuncture, but also Chinese herbal medicine, and Western medicine as well. A good book, IMHO.
As for the “death blow,” there supposedly is one taught to high level masters in the martial arts, but, of course, its kind of hard to demonstrate the blow convincingly. The program I saw on it, interviewed a martial arts practicioner who’d seen his master use it. According to him, the blow was one to a specific point in the abdominal region delivered with the fingertips. Death was instantaneous, so it wasn’t like he ruptured the guy’s appendix or anything like that. IIRC he severed a nerve in the spinal column, and that’s what killed the guy.
Well, literal “death blows” (um, thinking that through, I think I may have used “literal” incorrectly. Heck of a way to go, though.) aren’t that hard to deliver. A few years back, in Hawaii, a martial arts master (third, or so, degree black belt in Tae Kwan Do) was sentenced for life for hitting a teenager in the chest in such a way that it stopped his heart, killing him on the spot.
I do appreciate the dramatic value of the “touch of death” attacks, though.
The death needles in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon did not rely on acupuncture or qi or any such thing for effect. They were dipped in Purple Yin poison, which killed by paralyzing the heart. Remember?
