Kitchen cabinet refinishing: How do I make my cabinets not suck?

In My Humble Opinion
21

[QUOTE=Red1980]
What if I were to find brand new unfinished doors for a decent price and then I just sand off all the varnish of the actual cupboards (not the doors/drawers), and re-stain? Does this sound as time/effort-saving and acceptably affordable to you as it does to me?

Worst case scenario, replacing cupboard doors/drawer faces @ $30/each (MAX) would be $600 + the cost of re-staining them, which would be minimal… maybe $150 after all is said and done. If I can do this for $750, that is an acceptable cost to me.

Oh, as far as sanding and staining the non-door surfaces goes, would you say it would be wise to use a power sander? Or would using a power sander not be advisable? The way I see this is that the sanding looks like it will take the most time, and I heart power tools and cutting time to do things I suck at in half. :stuck_out_tongue:
[/QUOTE]

Power sander…not belt-sander, but a simple handheld vibrating sander. replacing the doors would be the best way to go where you can stain them whatever color you like best. You are on the right path with this type of thinking.

22

[QUOTE=Phlosphr]
Power sander…not belt-sander, but a simple handheld vibrating sander. replacing the doors would be the best way to go where you can stain them whatever color you like best. You are on the right path with this type of thinking.
[/QUOTE]

Then it is decided. I will replace doors and use a power sander on the remainder of the cabinet, then stain everything. (I wouldn’t be able to get my hands on a belt sander anyways :stuck_out_tongue: )

23

Oh, and thanks for your input, everyone.

24

[QUOTE=Red1980]
Oh, and thanks for your input, everyone.
[/QUOTE]

I’m not a SDMB salesman or anything, but this kind of frank exchange happens often here on the dope. It’s worth the $12. Sign up if you’d like, there are quite a few of us who like to discuss home improvements, 1920’s style death rays, fishing and even computer geeky stuff!

Good luck with your sanding and refinishing! I hope you post some pics when you are done!

25

[QUOTE=Red1980]
Then it is decided. I will replace doors and use a power sander on the remainder of the cabinet, then stain everything. (I wouldn’t be able to get my hands on a belt sander anyways :stuck_out_tongue: )
[/QUOTE]
Get a random orbital sander if you can.

26

[QUOTE=Anastasaeon]

Priming: Before you prime, it would be a good idea to find out if your old paint was oil based or acrylic. If you take a bit of denatured alcohol, put it on a clean (but old) cloth and rub it on the old paint - if some of the paint comes off, you’ve got an oil base. If nothing comes off, it’s water-base.
[/QUOTE]

Are you sure this is right? :confused: I am almost certain that oil based paints will NOT come off with denatured alcohol, but if it’s latex paint, some of it WILL come off with denatured alcohol.

27

[QUOTE=Enright3]
Are you sure this is right? :confused: I am almost certain that oil based paints will NOT come off with denatured alcohol, but if it’s latex paint, some of it WILL come off with denatured alcohol.
[/QUOTE]
Some support for your case.

Some more (pdf.)

28

[QUOTE=Enright3]
Are you sure this is right? :confused: I am almost certain that oil based paints will NOT come off with denatured alcohol, but if it’s latex paint, some of it WILL come off with denatured alcohol.
[/QUOTE]

Whooooooops! Big whoops. You are correct. It’s the other way 'round.

Forgive me, I’ve been on Christmas vacation - not thinking straight.

29

[QUOTE=Phlosphr]
I’m not a SDMB salesman or anything, but this kind of frank exchange happens often here on the dope. It’s worth the $12. Sign up if you’d like, there are quite a few of us who like to discuss home improvements, 1920’s style death rays, fishing and even computer geeky stuff!

Good luck with your sanding and refinishing! I hope you post some pics when you are done!
[/QUOTE]

I was actually directed here by a close friend of mine, who is a regular. I don’t know her username at this time, she just advised that I might find some good info here if I posted a thread on it. From what I’ve seen, there’s some good heads and personalities here. I will certainly post pictures when they are done, and perhaps I will even post some before/after pictures of the rest of my renos… I’m actually in the midst of 3 projects right now, and have another 2 or 3 to start and finish after that. Exciting, but tiring times!

30

[QUOTE=Anastasaeon]
Just woke up.. something I’d meant to add last night but forgot - I often see people come into my workplace and I send them off with all the equipment they need to refinish their cabinets. Depending on how big your cabinets are/how many doors you’ve got, I’ve seen most people do a small/medium kitchen project in ~$150, less for studio-sized cabinets, and up to $200 for a big kitchen. All paint prices vary between merchants, so do your research. If you can, ask to speak to a sales rep - those guys do outside work and try to bring in new clients, so their good name is on the line - they will always lead you in the right direction; their livelihood depends on it! They are a wealth of information about the products you choose to go with.

Good luck!

Oh, and if you need some help with the wallpaper, let me know. There are several options available - not much about removing wallpaper is easy.
[/QUOTE]

Wow! thanks. I am saving these posts for future reference. Great info.

31

Hey, now you guys get to help me. I’m pretty much going through the same thing. I have 40 year old painted cabinets that I want to repaint and get rid of two tone paint scheme!

It has oil based paint on them. I bought all the stuff for stripping them but for my small kitchen (10’ X 10’ or so) there are a still ton of cabinets doors to strip; plus drawers.

Now I’m thinking about sanding them instead. I’ll still have to remove all of them, but I’m wondering if I really need to get all of the old paint off first.

I know this is stupid, but it seems I read in a lot of places to clean the surfaces first. Why would that matter if I’m sanding it down? I haven’t read this thread in a while, and I’m sure some of my concerns are answered.

In the mean time, here are some photos of my ugly kitchen. I think my goal right now is to reuse the same hinges if possible, but maybe new pulls.
http://picasaweb.google.com/EnrightMcC/Kitchen

32

Upon reflection, (and reading through the above posts, like from Anastasaeon) I’m guessing the ‘clean before you sand’ idea is if you’re only going to do a light sanding before repainting. In my mind I was thinking I should probably try to remove some of the layered paint that’s probably on there.

Anyway… please feel free to throw some opinions and suggestions my way.

33

[QUOTE=Red1980]
Done.

Close up shot, shows some damage - http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg310/mlitnewski/2007-12-26001o.jpg

A good look at the actual doors - http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg310/mlitnewski/2007-12-26002o.jpg

My crappy wallpaper from 1974 - http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg310/mlitnewski/2007-12-26003o.jpg
[/QUOTE]

Is it just me, or does something look a little fishy about the finish on those cabinets? I obviously can’t examine them very closely from here, but in that first photo it really looks to me like they have a painted-on, simulated wood finish. The raised portions of the doors might even be vinyl (or melamine) over a cabinet-grade fiberboard. Maybe it’s just the picture…I just don’t see any end- or edge-grain in the shaped edges of the doors and drawers. I know that was a technique used on lower-grade cabinetry in the 60s and 70s, and still used in some places today.

Since Red1980 has said later in the thread that he’s going to replace the doors, it’s probably inconsequential for them, but I’d be interested in knowing exactly what the finish is on the face-frames. If it is a painted wood grain, then it’s likely a low-grade wood (like poplar) that may not accept stain very well and wouldn’t match the new doors well, either. If it is stained, be prepared for a lot of work to make it re-stainable (OK–I may have made that word up). Stain soaks into the wood some, and getting deep enough to remove all the color is difficult at best. If you can live with the face-frames being a slightly different color (and possibly a different wood) than the doors, then it shouldn’t be too bad.

I can’t say that I’ve ever seen doors as low as $15-30/door, but $150-300 seems pretty high to me, too. I guess it depends on what you’re getting. If you’re at all handy with tools, a cheap alternative would be to buy 3/4" birch plywood and iron-on edge tape and make your own replacement doors. It’s less than $100 per 4’ x 8’ sheet, and you can obviously get several doors/drawers out of it. The birch can then be painted or stained. Yeah–it’s not a fancy door, but if done right it can still look nice.

As for the face-frames, another alternative would be to buy pre-glued wood veneer in order to get a better match of wood species and color with the new doors. It’s kind of fussy work, and requires about as much prep-work as the other alternatives, but with patience can come out quite well.

My father owns a kitchen design shop, and I worked with him through college and for a few years after college designing and installing kitchens. I’m a computer geek now, but still lilke to do woodworking projects as a hobby. I thought Anastasaeon’s advice on paint was excellent. I’m not trying to be a party-pooper or overly negative, but just thought Red1980 should know what he’s in for with the re-staining project.

34

[QUOTE=Enright3]
Upon reflection, (and reading through the above posts, like from Anastasaeon) I’m guessing the ‘clean before you sand’ idea is if you’re only going to do a light sanding before repainting. In my mind I was thinking I should probably try to remove some of the layered paint that’s probably on there.

Anyway… please feel free to throw some opinions and suggestions my way.
[/QUOTE]

Unless the painted surface of the cabinets is badly chipped (it doesn’t look it from the photos), I’m not sure I’d worry too much about removing layers of paint. It’s a lot of effort for little return, IMO. If you can sand any light chips to blend in with the existing surface so they’re smooth, you should be able to get a good finish with just a light sanding of the rest and a couple of coats of paint. Depending on the color you choose, you may want to get a good primer for the face frames that won’t let the dark red bleed through.

35

[QUOTE=Red1980]
My crappy wallpaper from 1974 - http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg310/mlitnewski/2007-12-26003o.jpg
[/QUOTE]

Gahhh! You live in MY house!!! :eek:

36

[QUOTE=mikemo]
Unless the painted surface of the cabinets is badly chipped (it doesn’t look it from the photos), I’m not sure I’d worry too much about removing layers of paint. It’s a lot of effort for little return, IMO. If you can sand any light chips to blend in with the existing surface so they’re smooth, you should be able to get a good finish with just a light sanding of the rest and a couple of coats of paint. Depending on the color you choose, you may want to get a good primer for the face frames that won’t let the dark red bleed through.
[/QUOTE]

I’ll have to post some closeup pics of the drawers. They’re pretty badly chipped. However I bought a 2nd orbital sander so my wife can help :slight_smile: so we’re going to be a sanding team.

I also have a deglosser I might utilize as well. Thanks for the tip on the red paint. It seems so obvious now that you said it.

What grit sandpaper? I have 120 for my ROS, plus medium grade sanding pads for the crevices. I think I need to get a finer grit for buffing over the primer from what I’ve read on line.

Also, it’s currently oil based, and I suppose I plan on using oil based again. Yeah I know it’ll yellow over time; but it seems like that’s the best plan for a kitchen because of the grease and other liquids that are so prevalent. However, do any of you have any more opinions about other types of paint?

Thanks!

E3

37

Cabinet doors are now removed. I see a couple of oversized screws were holding some of them on. I’d like to fix that. What’s the conventional wisdom these days? In the olden days it was to just stick a few toothpicks in there and some Elmer’s glue.

What about the other holes? Would it be worth it to shoot something in those to ensure the screws have a snug fit when going back in?

38

[QUOTE=Enright3]
I’ll have to post some closeup pics of the drawers. They’re pretty badly chipped. However I bought a 2nd orbital sander so my wife can help :slight_smile: so we’re going to be a sanding team.

I also have a deglosser I might utilize as well. Thanks for the tip on the red paint. It seems so obvious now that you said it.

What grit sandpaper? I have 120 for my ROS, plus medium grade sanding pads for the crevices. I think I need to get a finer grit for buffing over the primer from what I’ve read on line.

Also, it’s currently oil based, and I suppose I plan on using oil based again. Yeah I know it’ll yellow over time; but it seems like that’s the best plan for a kitchen because of the grease and other liquids that are so prevalent. However, do any of you have any more opinions about other types of paint?

Thanks!

E3
[/QUOTE]

Sandpaper grit depends a little on how much paint you want/need to remove. 120 will probably gum up pretty quickly–remember that sanding generates heat which will melt the paint to some extent. You might want to start with 60-grit at first. It will remove the paint more quickly and not gum up quite as fast so you won’t have to change paper so often. Personally, I’d use something finer than 120 even before priming–150 or 180 (if you can find it). After priming and between top-coats, a light hit with 220 by hand (use a sanding block for the flat areas) should get you prep’d for final coat.

[QUOTE=Enright3]
Cabinet doors are now removed. I see a couple of oversized screws were holding some of them on. I’d like to fix that. What’s the conventional wisdom these days? In the olden days it was to just stick a few toothpicks in there and some Elmer’s glue.

What about the other holes? Would it be worth it to shoot something in those to ensure the screws have a snug fit when going back in?
[/QUOTE]

Toothpicks would still work, or a small dowel whittled down to fit the hole. You could also use a forstner bit to drill out the oversize hole and plug that by gluing in a dowel (I usually use a 3/8" bit and dowel for that). Don’t bother drilling all the way through the door…it only needs to be deep enough to fill the screw hole. After the glue dries you can trim the dowel close and then sand it flat with the surface.

As for the others, as long as the screw still has purchase to hold the hinge, I wouldn’t worry about it. You could fill them with epoxy if you’re worried about it, then re-drill the pilot hole and install the screws.

39

Quick update: My contractor came in to take a look at some other stuff I wanted to have done. I brought up the kitchen cupboards so I could get his input. He mentioned he could refinish them for $500. That means I don’t have to do ANYTHING… AND I save money… AND I don’t have to replace any doors at all.

I’m so happy I could cry.

40

My turn for an update for those who are interested.
The back spash of my kitchen is (was) the same laminate cover that’s currently on my (to be replaced) counter tops. I decided to pull it off since it ultimately wouldn’t match my replaced counter tops (plus it’s ugly as a back splash). Well I was originally going to replace the countertops with a built in back splash. But I see I made that decision a little to quickly! When I pulled the laminate off, it either left glue hard enough such that I’d be lucky if belt sander would smooth it out, or the laminate pulled the outer layer of paper off the underlying sheet rock.

Now I have to explore backsplash solutions. I kind of like the tin look, but from what I hear that’s expensive. I might see if I can put in a do-it-yourself tile. The kind that comes in a mesh that you roll out and cut to fit? Anyone have any suggestions about that or any other possible solutions?