Kitchen countertop recommendations

In My Humble Opinion
1

I am moving into a new old* apartment and am faced with scarred, burned laminate counter tops. They are edged in metal trim as is the backsplash which is the same laminate. It’s two rectangular sections which are reasonably sized but not huge.

What would you recommend for an economical do-it-yourself project? I figure I need to rip up the laminate to glue down some of those fetching little tile sheets; they make them look easy on Trading Spaces but who knows? Or more laminate? Or new countertop altogether (sounds expensive)?

Anything is better than the contact paper the previous tenant used to cover them up; I am still scraping away the residue from that.

Thanks for any help/experiences!
*reminds me of Springsteen: “Now the neighbors come from near and far/as we pull up in our brand new used car”

2

Installing laminate isn’t something I’d recommend to a novice do-it-yourselfer. It’s easy to screw up, plus to do it right, you need a laminate cutter to finish the edges properly.

I think tile is easier, especially for a small area. Tile cutters are easy to use and fairly cheap to rent. And I think most home improvement stores will teach you how to do the installation.

Just curious, since it’s an apartment, why doesn’t the landlord make the repairs?

3

If it is just a plain square, you can probably get a countertop made to order fairly cheaply, or buy a premade one at Home Depot or Lowes and cut it to size. Doing the laminate yourself is tough to get right, and you’re only saving the underlayment, which is cheap particleboard.

Tile is a good option, though it is thicker than laminate, which could be an issue.

4

They’re very flexible on this and have let me go ahead and do what I like! :slight_smile: (They will reimburse me.)

5

do you really feel like removing the sink, faucet set, anything else which mounts of the countertop?

if you do tile, the sink must be sealed, or splash will dribble down to the floor/cabinet bottoms.

(kitchen remodelers LOVE ugly counters - #1 source of customers).

go slow.

if you wish to pursue:

does the sink have a trim strip around it? if so, tiling will probably require a new sink - dopers - anyone re-install a rimmed sink after tiling?

tile is about 1/4" thick - if you do the backsplash, will the faucet set still fit/be usuable.

new laminate counters are cheap, but NOT easy to install correctly (they are straight, your wall in not, and getting the corner right is a real bitch - not a 1st time DIY project.)

6

I wouldn’t think the sink would be a problem – it’s probably clamped and/or caulked in, but can probably be pried up.

From the sound of it, you’re thinking of using vinyl tile sheets on your countertop? I guess it would work, although the Trading Spaces designs are rarely tested for longevity or even practicality.

Ceramic tiles can be done, provided the existing countertops are sturdy enough – ceramic tile needs a pretty rigid backing. I’d avoid this option unless you’re pretty handy – it’s easy to end up with an uneven surface. If you are handy, then this is probably the way to go for a really spiffy looking surface without major reconstruction.

If your existing countertops are absolutely rectangular and there are no odd shapes, you may be able to pick up prefab countertops at Home Depot at pretty reasonable prices. You’d still need some tools – jigsaw and a power drill at least.

Finally, although installing laminate isn’t an easy job, it’s not rocket science either. You have to be careful with the contact cement not to leave any bubbles (and not to accidentally ignite it into a huge kitchen-devouring fireball) and you do need a laminate trimmer (find a friend with a router). Any gaps along the backsplash can be hidden with some trim.

Cautionary note – if you are removing that old metal trim, be careful – it can be very sharp. I’ve got the scar to prove it.

7

The kitchen was just redone in the house I live in and we went with all stainless steel. Of course, that is super expensive because you don’t really put in on top of existing counters as a counter-top, they just replace the counters themselves. Plus, getting them the exact size you need might not work.

I’d just second what people said before and get stuff from Home Dept or the like.

8

IMO, I would avoid tile counters in the kitchen. I do some cleaning work, and one customer has tile kitchen counters - I cannot get these stupid things clean. Crumbs hide in all the cracks, and even with brushing, they just won’t all come out (and dried-on things in the cracks are also very hard to get out). I also find that the uneven surface of tiles is not appealing in a kitchen counter. I like my kitchen counters smooth and easy to wipe clean. Just my opinion, of course, but something to think about.

9

They sell pre-made laminated countertops in Home Depot (and presumably other similar stores). They are quite inexpensive and come in various lengths. And they look good.

10

How long are you planning on staying in this apartment? How much square footage are we talking? Cause if you’re only planning on staying a year, I’d remove the adhesive left behind from the former tenant and bear it.

Laminate, of course is usually the cheapest route. It is the linoleum of countertops. However, if it’s a typical apartment with just a tiny bit of counter space, it’s worth a shot to call a granite wholesaler in your area (look in the phone book) and ask if they have any scrap pieces the size you are looking for. Granite is shipped in huge slabs. And once they’re done cutting for a job, they might have enough left over for a small job, but not enough for a large job, which is their typical customer. This is a great opportunity for someone with a small kitchen to get granite at a steal. You’ll still have to pay for installation, but it would be worth it.

I’d also make a friendly call to the landlord and ask if he’d, at the very least, split the cost with you, if not foot the entire bill.

Good luck!

11

Woo! Another question I can answer!

Counter options for an apartment are laminate, and laminate.
For our listeners at home, [sub] and to hear myself type[/sub] I will do a short rundown on the main types of countertop options available.

Granite is way too expensive, any cut offs big enough for a small kitchen are going to be used by the fabricator to make vanity tops, splashes, or sills so you won’t get a break there.

Tile is a pain in the ass, It’s relatively easy to install but is a bear to maintain, the grout has to be sealed, you drop a glass on it and you are picking shards outta your toes for months (see also granite) and I generally am quite biased against it!

Stainless steel actually costs more than granite! It looks nice but can be a bit cold and antiseptic. It will also scratch and while a used stainless counter looks cool, it takes a long time for a home user to get it to look like that. I used to take steel tops, prop them up at a 45 degree angle and[sub]have one of my laborers;)[/sub] pour buckets of gravel down them to get that nice patina

Corian is nice and they are running a nationwide sale, if your landlord is will to fork out the $1500-2000 (go with a drop in sink and do your own mechanical hookups and demo), its a way to go but I have never seen an apartment landlord who would do such a thing. I use the brand name because there is a difference. I have spec’d and installed literally hundreds of Corian tops and have NEVER had a complaint or warranty issue that wasn’t due to complete idiocy.

The solid surface veneers (SSV) are Corian like materials that are only 1/8-1/4" thick rather than Corians’ 1/2" They are a RIPOFF. You are paying almost as much as for Corian, and getting a vastly inferior product.

Butcher block tops are nice and I personally like them but they require maintenance. They can also be pricey, If you want one, call around to your local cabinet shops, tell them what you want and ask if they will order you BBlock tops from Baer ( A nationwide supply house with good prices on them) I would not use it for the whole kitchen, but in conjunction with a self edge laminate top [sub]see below[/sub]it can make a nice design statement

Ok, back to the realities of apartment living;

There are two types of laminate tops, self edge and postformed (also called preformed) I will call these SE and PF respectively for the rest of the post.

SE laminate tops are the ones with the square front edge and separate backsplash that meets the counter at a 90 degree angel. PF tops can be seen here under “preformed tops”. They have a “waterfall” or half round front edge and an integral backsplash that has a slight radius in the inside corner and another curve at the top of the splash. I chose this link as it seems to have some good tips and guidelines for doing a lot of the ancillary work yourself.

While you can pick up PF blanks of countertops in standard lengths, endcaps, miters and lengths cut to size, and other necessary items at your local building products center, I would NOT put one into my own house.

Why? A few reasons:

  1. Durability. The laminate used in PF is about 30% thinner than the laminate used on self edge tops. This is to allow the curves to be made in the top. The laminate is therefore much more susceptible to burns, scratches which will go through the top layer into the phenolic resin substrate, cracking, and delamination.

  2. Corners. If you have to turn a corner, you will need to make a miter cut (have the store do this, they will rout the cutouts for the fasteners and provide you with the adhesive and draw tight bolts). This miter cut runs at a 45 degree angle from the inside corner to the outside corner. This is inherently unstable, susceptible to leaks, and very unsightly.

  3. Installation issues. If you look at the site I mentioned earlier, you will notice one of the biggest mistakes made in installing tops in not properly scribing the top to the wall at the back edge. With a PF top, this task is made much harder by the one piece construction. Instead of scribing a 1-1/2" piece of top then attaching a backsplash and doing a bit of minor sanding, you have to work with an unwieldy top held on edge as you try to sand up to 5" of particleboard down- not fun!

  4. Price. Now PF tops are cheaper than SE because you do it yourself, the laminate is cheaper, and the particlboard is almost ALWAYS a much inferior grade which is more susceptible to water.

However, if you consider what your time is worth, you are much better off hiring a local top shop to make you a SE top and installing it. I would do all the plumbing disconnect/hookups and demolition myself as this can get pricey from the top shops, but it’s a super cutthroat business and the profit margins are razor thin so you can get a good price if you shop around.
The cost will not be that much more, especially if you do the prep work yourself and you will end up with a much better, longer lasting top.
A good top shop will come out (after you have demo’d but many times before, to cut down on your no sink limbo), make a template using foamcore board, strips of plywood or (my favorite), the actual blanks of particleboard that the tops will be made out of. They will scribe the wall onto the template, take it back to the shop and fabricate it.

Remember my comment about corners? Well, with a SE top, the miter does not have to run the full length of the corner. It can go right next to it, 1 foot or so away, or even where the sink cutout is for maximum concealment and if the delivery is easy enough, they can make it as one piece where the seam of the laminate dows not align with the seam in the underlying substrate so you have a MUCH more waterproof top.
With the backsplashes, because of the way they are manufatured, PF tops have a backsplash thickness the same as the top (1-1/2") SE tops have 3/4" thick splashes which I think look much better as well as giving you and extra inch of usable counter (what with that pesky radius I mentioned earlier and all on the PF tops)

I have not listed any prices because they can vary soooo much depending on where you are. I am in Chicago and my experience has been with the more expensive shops but nevertheless, the added cost of a SE top is so beneficial in my opinion, there is no choice. Case in point, the last three houses I have lived in, I could have put most anything I wanted, I used SE. The colour choices are great ( I’m partial to Pionite and Nevamar just beacause Ilike their patterns), they are durable as hell when installed right, and if I decide I don’t like it, I can replace it a couple times before I approach the price of one granite or Corian installation!

Let me know if you have any other questions, I have been in the kitchen business all my life and will gladly answer any concerns you have. If you let me know where you are, I can check with my dealers and get you a recommendation for a top shop in your area.

P.S. Avoid the green laminates. They look nice, but to get that lovely green colour, they have to use a white backer paper under the print layer so any scratches will come out white! Not good. Avoid gloss for the same reason, it will look like crap in days and regardless of what anyone tells you, there is no way to rejuvenate it, trust me on this, MSP knows I’ve tried.

12

I can’t add much to what ** MikeG** has already said.
Go Mike!
The case he makes for choosing laminates is practically unassailable.
I will take the time to say a word or two about solid surface materials, since he has mentioned them.
Corian is a brand of solid surface material, and like Band Aid, or Kleenex, people refer to all solid surface materials as Corian in the same manner as bandages are always called Band Aids, or tissues called Kleenex. He is right to point out that Corian is the best though. It is the hardest one I know of. I am a certified fabricator (God why did they choose that word?) of one of their competitors products, and I will concede that Corian brand is superior.
A point needs to be made here about color. All solid surface material is essentially white (it’s made of a white substance) and the various colors in their product lines are made from pigments added in the form of powders. As a result, they all scratch white. Choose light colors for a kitchen. Dark colors will start to look pretty bad sooner than you think due to the white scratches. Lighter colors will hide this wear and tear much better.
I disagree that solid surface veneers are a rip-off, but he is right to caution you against using them for a countertop. (They are useful in places you don’t need to know about, like walls in laboratories and surgeries. They are adequate there, and provide an easily sterilized surface, but stick with half-inch materials for kitchen counters.)
If you do decide on solid surface materials, make sure the fabricator gives you the sink cutout. It’s best to tuck it away under the countertop out of sight. If repairs are needed in the future, the sink cutout will provide the material. The colors do vary from lot to lot, so buying new material, in addition to being very expensive, is not always going to provide a good match.

A quick clarification of terms:

1)Corian (and other brands as well)=Solid surface materials. They are made of aluminum trihydrate, pigments, and a resin binder.

2)Solid Surface Veneers= Thin solid surface material. (The operative word is veneer.)

The point is, they’re the same thing, just different thicknesses. Choose the thicker of the two.

Concerning plastic laminates:

Mike doesn’t like the preformed countertops, but if you are doing this yourself, they might be your best option. They are cheap, available, and have already been laminated to a substrate. As has been pointed out, the scribe cut and the miter cut will be the toughest parts. A simple straight run “galley” style countertop will be the easiest. An “L” shaped counter is harder. If your counter is “U” shaped, and surrounded (captured) within walls all the way around, you will have the hardest time of all.
Straight = one scribe only
“L” Shaped = one miter and two scribes
“U” Shaped = two miters and three scribes

I’m not disagreeing with his critiques regarding PF laminate tops, just saying that they may be option number one for you, a do-it-yourselfer.

I liked his link. You can get some good basic information from the instructional pages there.

As he suggests, a contractor may be the best way to go. The problem with giving building advice in this thread is that I don’t know what level of experience you have, or what tools you have. Laminate counters aren’t too hard, but I can see where a beginner would have a lot of difficulty.

Keep us posted.

:slight_smile:

Oh yeah.
I hate, positively HATE laminates with white paper backers! Even for an experienced laminate guy like me, they are a bitch to work. If you choose a color with a white backer, you will have a problem. Some little bit will always peek through at you. And it looks like crap lemme tellya!

Ditto gloss laminates!

13

Just wanted to point out that Home Depot recently quoted me a price of 6K to install Corian into my very moderately sized kitchen (not including the price to rip up the old stuff).

Although this probably won’t come up in this case, I’d like to counsel everybody out there to NEVER install black marble kitchen counters because they look “pretty.” They stain. They are impossible to clean, they must be buffed and polished.

Every person I call with questions about refinishing/replacing the marble have started our conversation with, “Oh, you don’t have marble, you have granite.” When I confirm that yes, I do have black marble countertops in the kitchen there is always a long pause and a very predictable, “you really shouldn’t put marble in the kitchen.” YES I KNOW.

I hate the previous owners of this house, more dollars than sense.

14

Thank you all for your help, and especially to MikeG for the information and link. I hope to stay in this place quite awhile so it would be worth my time and investment to replace what’s there.

Off to explore the link :slight_smile: