I’m redoing the wiring in my kitchen, which includes an attached dining room. Wondering if there’s any obvious problems that I’m not seeing with what I’m doing.
Quad outlets every 3 feet on the countertop, duplex outlet for the fridge and gas oven, single outlet for the gas stove.
I’m not sure if it’s conventional or allowed to put the stove on the fridge circuit?
The boxes and greenfield are pretty tight since I’m pulling in 5 wires where there used to be 3, (two hots, two neutrals, and a ground) but I replaced the boxes I easily could and I calculated the rest are either at or below capacity.
Circuit #1 20 amps, GFCI, the dining room outlets, and the right side of the kitchen counter outlets.
Circuit #2 20 amps, GFCI, the left side of the kitchen counter outlets
Circuit #3 15 amps, no GFCI, the fridge, stove, and oven. I heard it’s not necessary or desirable to include a GFCI for fixed appliances.
The microwave is just a countertop unit that plugs into one of the 20 amp countertop circuits.
Lights are modest (I don’t have a billion incandescent can lights) and are shared with other lighting circuits in the house. The range hood is also fed off the lighting circuits.
Just make sure you’re not loading one phase of your panel more than the other; in other words, distribute the load as evenly as you can. It’s not a really serious issue, as your outlets will not all be in use at the same time.
The fridge: if the installation instructions for the fridge say it must be on a dedicated circuit, then it may be a good idea to do so, but personally I don’t think it’s necessary. The NEC doesn’t require a dedicated circuit, just that it MAY be on its own 15 amp circuit rather than the required 20 amp circuit that the rest of the kitchen is required to have. Note that there may be local code restrictions that are more strict than the NEC.
As long as your appliances are located in the kitchen and not, say, in a garage, no GFCI is required.
Depends where you are. In DC the code does not allow light and countertop service outlets to be on the same circuit as fixed appliances. I also seem to recall that the code wanted the fridge and range to be on their own separate circuits, although he range and range hood were allowed to share the same circuit.
Also, all the service outlets in the kitchen had to be GFCI - not just those near a sink. This was news to me and I ended up having to swap out 8 newly installed outlets.
fridge circuit should be 20A and not with a GFCI, no other receptacles. 20A may be required though even if not it won’t trip when someday the fridge has a large current draw when starting.
yes balance the electrical load. put one side of the kitchen on one leg of your power and the other side on the other leg. put the fridge on the opposite leg of another fridge or deep freeze.
True, but it is accepted as common practice these days. The stove/oven should be on a dedicated circuit. The fridge should be on a dedicated circuit. The outlet for the microwave should be a dedicated circuit. It’s not required by the NEC but you can end up with a lot of nuisance breaker trips if you don’t do this. The microwave circuit since it’s a regular outlet should be GFCI. You don’t need a GFCI for the fridge and stove/oven. In fact, a lot of GFCIs willt rip unnecessarily due to the inrush current when the fridge starts up.
Note that with 20 amp outlet circuits where there’s more than one outlet, the wire may be rated for 20 amps and the breaker may be 20 amps, but you have to use 15 amp outlets. The 15 amp outlets are rated for 20 amps but lack the notch for the 20 amp plug. The idea behind this is that if you put the 20 amp outlet there (with the notch) then you intend to plug a 20 amp device into it, which means that it should be on its own dedicated circuit. This isn’t just good practice, it’s an NEC requirement.
Since the OP keeps calling them 20 amp circuits I’m not sure what was intended.
How many outlets on the counter top? You say every 3 feet but that’s a big difference if it’s a 6 foot counter top or an 18 foot counter top. You may want to alternate these between two circuits if there’s a lot of them.
In our lab at work, we have a number of outlet strips permanently installed on the walls. Each strip is constructed of heavy, rectangular sheet metal with knockouts for standard receptacles. Each strip has eight to ten receptacles, and each receptacle is a 120 VAC / 20 A outlet. I would assume each receptacle is on the same circuit since they share the same strip. If it’s illegal, I am wondering how our lab could have passed inspection.
I have no cite, but I recall it was required or at least recommended to not put refrigerators or freezers on a GFCI circuit, because of the danger it could trip, the food become warm, then be reset and and the now-unsafe food refrozen, all without a homeowner noticing.
You’d probably notice if you reset a dedicated freezer outlet with a local GFCI breaker, but if it’s a regular outlet downstream of the breaker outlet, or if the GFCI is at the breaker box, it could plausibly happen. (As I write this, I’m thinking it could be the freezer manufacturers recommending this.)
I guess my question is: if there is a 15 amp circuit for the fridge, is it also permissible to power the gas stove and gas oven off the same circuit (since in my setup it’s most convenient to do that way), and without a GFCI since they’re “fixed” appliances.
Rather than alternate outlets, the countertops have four outlets in each location rather than two (because I’m tired of using cube taps), the left and right outlets are on a different circuit, the intent was to have the coffee maker, toaster, and a few lamps in the dining area on the “right” circuit, and the microwave on the “left” circuit.
Permitted? Probably. It’s allowed by the NEC, though local codes may have something against it.
A good idea? No. You should put the stove and oven on one circuit and the fridge on its own circuit. That’s the way new houses are built.
Again, permitted by the NEC (maybe not by local codes), but not a good idea. New homes have a clearly separate circuit for the microwave. With all four outlets in a quad, someone who moves into your home at some later time won’t know that they are on two separate circuits and will randomly plug the microwave into one of them instead of having it on its own dedicated circuit.
If you’re going to run all from the same circuit, I’d make it a 20 amp. But you’d be better off having a separate circuit to avoid nuisance tripping, as noted above. While a gas appliance draws very little amperage with its digital panels, do you want to take the chance of having your refrigerator go off line while you’re on vacation? GFCI is not required for stand-alone appliances unless it’s a commercial area or if the appliance is in a non-kitchen area and within 6 feet of a water source.
You really should check local codes on all this. If you ever sell the house and an inspector dings you on the electrical, you could be looking at a major rework to get it into compliance.
Depends. If it’s built under the umbrella of temporary construction, they can get away with it. Ever been backstage at a playhouse? :eek: The one in Ashland, OR has been there for many years. As a former electrician, I was shocked and appalled by what I saw backstage, but they get a pass from the local code Nazis because it’s “temporary” wiring.
I fully understand your point that a 20 amp receptacle should be on a dedicated circuit, though. And it’s probably a good idea. (To recap what you said, if an appliance has a 120 V / 20 A plug, it probably draws between 15 A and 20 A. Whereas if an appliance has a 120 V / 15 A plug, it draws between 0.01 A and 15 A. Therefore, if an appliance has a 120 V / 20 A plug, it should be on its own circuit since there it is likely it will draw a lot of current. Making sure a 20 amp receptacle is on a dedicated circuit will guarantee this.) I am just curious if this is an NEC requirement.
having that is a hazard in that a person might turn off the circuit for one outlet and assume the box to be cold while half the box is still live (safe people test before touching).
i would put in single gang boxes on separate circuits at half the distance of the dual gang boxes.
Here is a SDMB thread that discusses this very issue. In the thread ECG said,
Which I agree with.
Am not sure why ECG now claims it is an NEC requirement. (Not beat’n up on ya, ECG. But perhaps your memory is a bit faulty here. )
As for the difference between 15 A receptacles and 20 A receptacles, I believe ECG is correct; the internals are the same, the only difference is the horizontal slot in the latter. Which is interesting, because it means the conductors inside a 15 A outlet are really rated for at least 20 A. I thoughtQ.E.D. disassembled some receptacles and proved this was true, but I can’t find the thread.
That kind of makes sense, since you could have two 10A devices plugged into the two outlets of a 15A outlet, giving a total of 20 amps for the receptacle. So most of it would have to be able to handle 20 amps anyway.
Go ahead and beat up on me. Looks like a memory fault. At some point I got it into my head that it was an actual NEC requirement but that doesn’t seem to be the case (if it is I can’t find the NEC cite for it).
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