[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
Well, Klan-types and those of similar views did hold power in a number of southern U.S. states for a very long time. Getting rid of them was, to understate it grossly, tricky.
I’d like to see a similar process in an Islamic nation that doesn’t just end up replacing oppression with equal or greater oppression.
[/QUOTE]
Makes you think of a more appropriate use for IEDs.
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
Well, Klan-types and those of similar views did hold power in a number of southern U.S. states for a very long time. Getting rid of them was, to understate it grossly, tricky.
[/QUOTE]
Yep. We shipped them up north:
Did you also know that most hate crimes occur in the Northern and Western areas of the United States and not in the Southern states as many incorrectly assume. For example, Pennsylvania hosted more Klan rallies in the 1990s than Alabama did.http://racerelations.about.com/od/recognizingmicroinequities/a/hategroups.htm
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
Well, you lied in response to mine about whether or not Arab courts are a fringe group when you said “yes”.
[/QUOTE]
Huh?
[QUOTE=Jackmannii]
“Moderates” make excuses and/or are reluctant to disavow them.
[/QUOTE]
cite?
[QUOTE=jjimm]
Fascists or their equivalent are kinda difficult to get rid of when they’re at the top. Are the SLORC representative of the Burmese people?
[/QUOTE]
But even when the Islamist radicals aren’t in power they have a lot of influence, enough to scare actual (sort of) fascists like Mubarak and Musharraf (sp?). They’ve mounted serious attempts to take control in Algeria and Afghanistan. They’ve got far more influence over the Muslim world than Christian lunatics like Phelps have over America, let alone the whole Christian world.
[QUOTE=Liberal]
Yep. We shipped them up north
[/QUOTE]
I guess they persist there because of their relative novelty value. 
[QUOTE=lowbrass]
cite?
[/QUOTE]
Wait now…listen for that silence. You don’t hear it? It’s deafening.
A Saudi poet’s lament about Islamic extremism and other problems besetting Arabs was published in the N.Y. Times a few days ago.
(excerpt) *When religion has control over science — you can be sure that you are in an Arab country.
When clerics are referred to as “scholars” — don’t be astonished, you are in an Arab country…When you hear the clerics saying that democracy is heresy, but seizing every opportunity provided by democracy to grab high positions — do not be surprised, you are in an Arab country. …When you discover that a woman is worth half of what a man is worth, or less — do not be surprised, you are in an Arab country.*
Today there was a letter to the editor from an academic in Jordan (and self-styled reformer), who berated the Times for publishing the poet’s lament on the grounds that it was racist.
Maybe he’s even more upset about Islamic courts giving 90 lashes to rape victims. But it’s hard to tell.
[QUOTE=wolf_meister]
Well, I will not be spending my vacation dollar in Belize. :mad:
[/QUOTE]
Yes, but will you forever be a sworn enemy of Belize?
…
As for the OP…a big swing and a miss there, bucko.
[QUOTE=Jackmannii]
Wait now…listen for that silence. You don’t hear it? It’s deafening.
[/QUOTE]
Nice argument. Moderates make excuses and are reluctant to disavow them, because you don’t hear anything.
By that same argument, moderate Christians make excuses and are reluctant to disavow the KKK.
Hear that silence?
Yeah, that works. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=lowbrass]
By that same argument, moderate Christians make excuses and are reluctant to disavow the KKK.
[/QUOTE]
Well, they’re too busy making sure the KKK gets positions of authority in the criminal courts, silly.
[QUOTE=Rysdad]
As for the OP…a big swing and a miss there, bucko.
[/QUOTE]
How so?
And by the way, I’m hearing a LOT of “It’s different because one is a goverment and the other is a private group.” However, I’m not hearing any explanation as to why this would invalidate the point that it’s wrong to judge an entire religion based on what one group does.
It is not sufficient to simply point out that two situations are different in some way, you must explain why that difference is germane to the point.
Any takers - or do you guys just want to continue blowing hot air?
Well, if the Klan had a government organized along their ideals, they would go from being nutcase extremists with no power to being the harsh but fair fist of justice ramming up the asses of the people.
Saudi Arabia is what the U.S. would look like if the Klan (and people who thought along similar lines as the Klan) ran the place. Instead of the country being full of people who think the Klan are dumb, the country would be full of people who at least nominally tolerate the Klan’s politics. An outsider would be free to feel contempt for them.
Personally, I’m not offended by your tripe that my feelings toward Saudi “justice” prove I’m a bigot. Such statements only prove that you’re an idiot.
[QUOTE=lowbrass]
And by the way, I’m hearing a LOT of “It’s different because one is a goverment and the other is a private group.” However, I’m not hearing any explanation as to why this would invalidate the point that it’s wrong to judge an entire religion based on what one group does.
It is not sufficient to simply point out that two situations are different in some way, you must explain why that difference is germane to the point.
[/QUOTE]
Because the KKK is a small, marginalized private group. If they have a rally, there is likely a 10:1 ratio of people protesting against the rally. They have power over nothing because the people of the U.S., Christians included, view them as what they are, radical extremists who should NEVER be put into any sort of power.
Islamic extremists have taken over a number of high profile positions in several countries, as has been pointed out here. They have positions of power to strongly influence the passage and implementation of laws. They have gotten into these positions because they’re positions are less marginalized and more representative of a larger number of people than the KKK. Do they represent everyone? No. But they represent a much higher percentage of people than the KKK.
You honestly can’t see a difference between these two groups? Your OP was only valid if the KKK has an equal amount of respectability and power as, say, the Islamic radicals in the Saudi courts, or the Hamas representation of the Palestinians; this is so obviously not the case, explaining why everyone is pointing out that your analogy is invalid.
[QUOTE=lowbrass]
Nice argument. Moderates make excuses and are reluctant to disavow them, because you don’t hear anything.
[/quote]
There’s also a deafening silence from you about the example I provided (of an Arab “reformer” who thinks that highlighting another Arab’s complaints about Islamic clerics constitutes “racism”).
It’s been alluded to before, but your premise of a “KKK resurgence” in the U.S. is highly dubious. According to a recent story in the L.A. Times, the Anti-Defamation League, which last year warned of a Klan comeback, admits that the KKK is fragmented, with little financial backing and that individual Klan groups typically have a short existence before falling apart:
*The ADL’s emphasis on the Empire Knights (of the KKK) failed to impress Florida’s St. Petersburg Times, the major newspaper closest to the Knights’ U.S. headquarters. “The Anti-Defamation League says there is a Homosassa branch of the Ku Klux Klan and that it is helping lead a national Klan resurgence,” a Times story began. “This came as news to the Citrus County sheriff’s office,” the paper said. Sheriff’s investigators there “have seen no activity recently” by the Homosassa Klan, the paper reported.
ADL Florida regional director Andrew Rosenkranz, the Times went on, “said he didn’t disagree with local law enforcement’s observations.”
Frankly, the turnout of a mere 20 KKKers at an anti-immigration rally organized by the Empire Knights in Amarillo, Texas, in August may be indicative of the Knights’ lack of strength. The ADL emphasizes how the Knights’ website features “an Internet-based radio station … which broadcasts white power music” as well as links to the 20 state “realms” — but the available evidence suggests that the “Empire” may be a Potemkin village.
Click on the Florida realm and a dead link results. Georgia, like Texas, is “under construction.” The California realm has a five-paragraph screed announcing that “we are a Klandestine Province and Empire,” but the sections on “beliefs,” “history” and “events” are likewise “under construction.” Under a category called “forum,” there’s a recipe for “beef and veggie skillet,” and under “members,” there’s a grand total of 24 registered individuals.*
So, lowbrass, are you picking up on the difference between a system of Islamic “justice” that is entrenched in power, and a pitiful handful of marginalized “white knight” wannabes?
The KKK took my baby away.
[QUOTE=lowbrass]
And by the way, I’m hearing a LOT of “It’s different because one is a goverment and the other is a private group.” However, I’m not hearing any explanation as to why this would invalidate the point that it’s wrong to judge an entire religion based on what one group does.
[/QUOTE]
Because you stated that it was wrong to judge a religion because of what a fringe group does. The KKK is a fringe group. The governments of SA and Iran are not. Nor is the Taliban. Nor is Hamas, or Sadr’s Mahdi army, or Al-qaeda, or the Islamists in Morrocco, Algeria, or Pakistan.
Radical Islam is a huge subset of Islam, while the KKK is a little piece of slime on Christianity. A world wide movement of religious leaders calling for the death of Jews and Crusaders just doesn’t compare to a handful of assholes at a KKK rally. It’s not a matter of Public v. Private, it’s a matter of size and influence.
By the way, I am concerned about the KKK. In this age of powerful explosives it doesn’t take a lot of people to cause a lot of damage, as Tim McVeigh showed. Also, it’s certainly possible that if the economy goes to hell, groups like the KKK might gain more adherents. But right now there’s just no comparison between American Christian fringe groups, and world-wide Islamist groups.
[QUOTE=El Cid Viscoso]
The KKK took my baby away.
[/QUOTE]
They tuk ur jahbs!
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia]
Because you stated that it was wrong to judge a religion because of what a fringe group does. The KKK is a fringe group. The governments of SA and Iran are not. Nor is the Taliban. Nor is Hamas, or Sadr’s Mahdi army, or Al-qaeda, or the Islamists in Morrocco, Algeria, or Pakistan.
[/QUOTE]
So you are arguing that the government of Saudi Arabia represents the entire 1.75 billion population of Muslim people worldwide? Sorry, I just don’t believe that’s true.
Well, the government of Saudi Arabia certainly represents the 27 million people who live in Saudi Arabia, right? How many people are members of the Klan?
Anyway, the Klan is a joke. Right-wing racist nativists don’t join the Klan anymore, they join other groups.
[QUOTE=Cervaise]
They tuk ur jahbs!
[/QUOTE]
I in ur robes, takin ur jahbz