I don’t think the amount of comfort from reclining is trivial. To me, it seems pretty big. With a small recline, I can nap and rest comfortably. Fully reclined, i can sleep. In the full upright position, I feel as if a am being pitched forward.
And your short flight may be a leg of someone’s long flight. And even if it’s 2:00 PM in Atlanta, it may be 2:00 AM wherever they have flown in from.
I don’t ever recline my seat and simply rest in the glory that I’m that much more noble than everyone else.
It depends on the type of plane as well. I forget what numbers of aircraft they were, but when I flew to New Orleans last year, the seat in fully upright position actually pushed by head forward. Sitting upright against the seat curved my back forward like I was hunched over and was VERY uncomfortable. If I wasn’t able to recline it would have been painful. But when I flew to LAX, even in the upright position the seat was still relatively comfortable. (Though it was more so when reclined a bit.) This is all on United.
I have never been negatively affected by anyone in front of me reclining. The tray tables are attached in such a way so that they don’t move when the seatback reclines. I have always had plenty of room (but then again I am not overweight either.)
It a person of height and or long legs that is most affected by this. Overweight, probably not as much.
I fly Frontier when I can. I have a Frontier CC and if I book the flight on that, I get the stretch seating (if available) at no extra cost.
I’ll only put my seat back if there is a small of stature person behind me. I know how much it sucks to get your knees crunched.
FYI - Not sure how many people know this, but I’ve never seen anyone else do it. On aisle seats, you can put the armrest up by releasing a button back underneath the armrest where you would expect it to hinge. I helps a lot for getting in and out of your seat. You can rotate your legs into the aisle and stand up. Very helpful for tall folks.
This guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about. There is no system in place for paying someone not to recline. How much is it? Who sets the price? Who enforces it? Are people supposed to find out by themselves beforehand how much it costs or just hope you’re sitting behind someone willing to entertain the idea? What if you pay and they still recline, what recourse do you have?
Its silly to tell people like Shagnasty that they have all these options including not flying. That’s like saying you must accept abuse by your boss or be unemployed. Its a false dilemma, people shouldn’t have to make that choice. Speaking of choice, there are regulations that limit obviously terrible choices like that. Kids shouldn’t be allowed the choice to skip school and work 14 hours a day in a factory, we’ve taken away that choice and people are more free for it because it is an exploitative choice.
By the same token, the way I would solve this issue is that I don’t think airlines should have the “choice” to offer such tiny seats that hurt a significant portion of people. What’s the maximum height/weight range that 99% of people fall under? That’s what I would force airlines to design their planes to. If its 6’2 or 6’5 and 250lbs, then all seats must accommodate a person of that dimension comfortably. No more of this shrinking seats down to the barest minimum that an under average human can tolerate. If prices have to be raised to accommodate, then fine, air travel may just have to be priced out of the range of certain people just as the poor aren’t driving Ferrari’s.
Or just have seats that prompt both the person reclining and the person behind him to give permission if the person in front wants to recline. That way, unless they both agree, then nobody reclines.
You’ve represented the issue with some beautifully calm and sensible language here, Shag.
In this light, I think the solution is not to tamper with the plane but to start a wave (fad? fashion?) of filing lawsuits against either the manufacturers (Boeing? Airbus?) or the airlines when the equipment they’ve designed or specified causes or aggravates an injury – basically due to the creeping reduction in leg-room. The injury to my knee/aggravation of my scoliosis/root cause of the fibular thrombosis was directly related to the seats and (lack of) space between them on the airplane. For those whose jobs require travel by plane, is OSHA (or its equivalent outside the USA) an appropriate entity to look into these problems? I think when the lawsuits start piling up, the airlines’ or manufacturers’ accounting departments will start pushing back against the diminishing leg-room trend and start saying, “Hey, booking flights in an extra row of seats is not worth the compensatory and punitive damages we’re paying.”
–G!
In other words, you would like more space, and you’d much prefer that I pay for it.
You may be interested to know that a recent study found no difference in the rates of deep vein thrombosis (aka “economy class syndrome”) among people in economy vs. first class. Link.
I believe OSHA only would apply to airline employees, not airline customers, regardless of why they are traveling. They simply aren’t workers on the airplane.
And can we do this for more things? I’d like the subway to be less crowded, so let’s jack up the price and outfit it with lazyboys instead of benches. I really like lobster, so I think all buffets should be required to serve lobster, and if they have to raise the price they raise the price. I like those movie theaters with the huge vibrating seats-- close down the second run theaters now!
Personally, I’d happily be stacked like cordwood on my personal travel if it gets me there cheaper. Put us in little stacked cubbies or something. I understand other people have legit reasons for wanting other things, but I don’t want to be forced to subsidize things I do not want and do not need.
Reclining seats in airplanes are stupid. I wished they did not. However, we don’t live in that world and so people should be able to recline all they want. I, however, never do so because I HATE it when the person in front of me does so.
No, that’s the beauty of it. If you don’t want to pay for it, you shouldn’t, nobody’s going to force you to fly. Your own advice where you tell tall people either pay up or dont fly can be thrown back and with the suggestion that if you can’t afford to fly, then don’t.
So if you’re both using essentially the same argument, why does one win out over the other you might wonder? Because having a minimum standard that accommodates a reasonable number of people is a good thing, as we’ve seen with minimum wage, child labor laws, safety regulations, etc. I see the seat sizes as a bit of a comfort issue and a bit of a safety issue. I’d err towards safety, so should you.
Besides, there’s no reason why seats should get smaller when Americans are getting bigger. The seat sizes don’t make objective sense, therefore we shouldn’t have the option to choose it. You may not be an extreme outlier, but if an airline offered flights for $5 but in return passengers have to sit on the airplane floor with no seats and exposed wires, I’d say that we need to regulate such low-priced fares out of the marketplace. You merely don’t see that as a problem because of tradition
Personal preference vs. things that are a safety/health hazard for people is a silly argument. Just because you’re upset doesn’t mean you have to resort to it.
It would be even cheaper if we allowed child labor to build the plane parts, removed worker rights, and got rid of the minimum wage too. Some things are just not worth it to society. Doesn’t matter if you personally don’t care, there’s a line society draws to determine what they will and will not put up with. Airplane seats are rapidly crossing that line. Sorry if you don’t like it, you’ll just have to deal with it
But what is wrong with putting in more economy plus seats based on demand? Why is that not a solution-- beyond the fact that you’d like other people to subsidize you?
How is that different from the current system? If you want to pay for more comfort, then no one is stopping you from upgrading. The current system is working for the vast majority of people who are willing to sacrifice comfort for price. If you think otherwise, then maybe you should start a comfort class airline with larger seats and higher prices. Who knows? Maybe there is a market there.
I have been here long enough to remember when you proudly called yourself a ‘commie’ on these very boards many years ago when you were a teenager. Now you are apparently a right-wing conservative judging by these attitudes and use of phrases. My Facebook friends would be very proud. If you ever decide to run for national office, you have my vote on the GOP ticket despite our differences on this issue 
Don’t get me wrong, when we get ObamaAir it’s gonna be a different story.
I’ve never seen them, but they should be handed out every flight, and people can only recline when no one is behind them to lock the seat in place.
Here is an alternate question for all the reclining enthusiasts. Many passengers don’t actually need any type of device to block people from leaning back if you are tall and strong enough. You can just position your knees exactly at the back of the seat in front of you. If they try to lay back, even forcefully, they generally can’t do it. I have done that plenty of times with good success. It is mildly unconformable if they try to push really hard but not nearly as bad as having someone slam their seat into your knee at an odd angle unexpectedly after a couple of inches of travel. It isn’t a pre-planned thing. That is just the way my knees naturally get positioned for small seats in a full row because I would interfere with my rowmates space if I moved my leg off to the side to accommodate the person attempting to recline.
Who is correct in these circumstances? Should I defer and slide my legs off to the side into my rowmates space or into the aisle so that the person in front of me can recline or just keep my feet on the floor and hold my position? I have always been conflicted about that. The flight attendants don’t like it if you put your feet in the aisle and people in middle seats really don’t like it if you step on them. Again, I am not a giant by any stretch. I am just a little taller than average.
I just had that experience on my last flight. I’m 6’6" and on small planes I normally touch the back of the seat in front of me. The couple in front of me decided to recline and the husband went back into the face of the girl next to me but the wife didn’t move. Except for an increased pressure on my knees I would have known anything was going on she slammed back three times before she looked behind her, whispered to her husband and enjoyed the rest of the flight upright.
I would love the knee defender since I hopefully wouldn’t have the increased pressure on my knees but in general the person in front of me never can lean back.
Apparently it’s an epidemic.
Air martials had to restrain the person offended by the reclining party and he faces federal charges.
There are plenty of things stopping you if an upgrade is not available. It is getting better, but again, you can’t always get it.
The stretch seating is a great idea, and as it often fills up, they will probably offer more of it. I sure hope so.
Seems like I hardly ever see first class anymore. But when I do, the prices are so ridiculous that it seems that they are subsidizing the rest of the plane.