Koch/AFP Caught Red-Handed in NC?

So, since there wasn’t already a thread about this, and since I can’t tweet it at the moment because I have software that prevents me from spending too long on certain sites, I figured I should put this page full of news results on the topic right here.

So, is this a big deal, or what?

I’m not sure what the big deal is. Presumably AFP directs its mailings to potential supporters, so deliberately sending them wrong voting information would hurt their cause. Is there information out there to the contrary?

Depends on who the targets of the mailings were. If they were concentrated in Democratic-leaning areas, then it was probably an attempt to suppress Democratic votes. It’s quite common for right wing groups to put out fliers in Democratic areas telling people that Democrats are supposed to vote on Wednesday or that anyone with any outstanding warrants will be arrested if they try to vote, that sort of thing. Could be a simple case of laziness on the part of whoever wrote the mailing, but given their history I rather doubt it.

It sure looks like the same sort of stuff that, when it comes from more liberal voter-registration efforts, gets the right all worked up about voter fraud. “They tried to register someone’s cat!” But I’m guessing it’ll be crickets from the voter fraud alarmists this time, because Koch.

Man, the Koch brothers bought Agence France-Presse? I missed that news…

Not even ThinkProgress believes they were caught red-handed -


I doubt anything will come of this. If there were any evidence TP would be crowing about it.


That’s silly reasoning, Shodan. What probably cannot be proved in court is whether AFP intended to suppress the vote or just made a mistake. But we the public are not a jury who must find beyond a reasonable doubt, nor must we disregard the refusal of suspect’s to testify on their own behalf as proof of guilt.

Here’s what I would want to know in personally assessing whether this deliberate fraud or not: Who was targeted by these mailings? And how often does this happen among groups sending friendly mailings?

If these were targeted at people the AFP thought would vote for Democrats, and if this kind of thing doesn’t happen very often with friendly mailings, that would be pretty good circumstantial evidence of intent to suppress. Especially when added to the fact that AFP has made this same “mistake” before.

And what did AFP have to say on it’s own behalf? “Americans For Prosperity declined to clarify how many forms were sent, or what the organization’s targeting method was.” Not very reassuring.

The reasoning isn’t silly at all. ThinkProgress is a left-wing site, and probably at least as motivated as anyone on the SDMB to show how the Koch brothers or AFP were “caught red-handed”. But they admit that, far from being caught red-handed, there is no real evidence at all.

This would be fine if it were applied evenhandedly to both sides, but isn’t.


No, they don’t. You’re conflating “no evidence” with “ability to prove foul play.” They aren’t the same, for all the reasons I wrote.

This is the problem with viewing everything as being about sides. One individual has some standard, and you accuse everyone you understand to be on that individual’s side of hypocrisy if they apply some other standard. It doesn’t make sense except in a hyper-partisan brain that sees everyone as belonging to a team battling the other team.

So, you would be fine if say, the DNCC sent similarly wrong information to every AARP in NC? After all, it might be an honest mistake.

I’m not sure what you’re saying, except that that’s it wrong.

You are applying a standard to the GOP (if they don’t say what you want they must be guilty) that you do not apply to Democrats. That’s hypocrisy. ThinkProgress is marginally fairer than that, because they admit there is no evidence of wrongdoing.

If you or ThinkProgress had any real evidence, you would be pushing that. You don’t, so here we are, again.

No, that’s not the kind of thing Democrats do in North Carolina.


Hahahaha. Rarely does a poster capture himself so well.

Perhaps you should start a new thread if *you *feel so strongly against Democratic voter fraud.


Blightbart? James O’Keefe? You cited Breitbart and James O’Keefe? What, post-modernist irony?