korean vs. japanese vs chinese script

[Grim_Jaa]

Some further comments from a Korean speaker and Seoul resident:

Korean certainly does not used a mixed alphabet/chinese character system as someone above mentioned.

In the past in newspapers and official documents you would see some chinese characters but these days even the major newspapers rarely use them except in very specific circumstances and there are some major dailies who never use them. Further, Korean chinese characters are called Han-ja.

Some notable exceptions to the chinese character rule: Calenders still have the characters for the days of the week. Most Koreans can write their name with chinese characters because thats where parents take their children’s names from. So most Koreans have a specific meaning behind their name like, “Lavender Wind” or “Strength and Diligence”. All Korean family names, of which there are only about 74 in total, have a corresponding chinese character. For example, the most popular family name “Kim” is the character for “gold” (geum). Most koreans have a three-syllable name. One syllable for the family name (Kim, Lee, Park, Jung, Oh, Shin etc) and a two syllable first name(Jung-min, Mee-sun, Yu-jin etc), where each syllable is derived from a chinese character. However some people only have a single syllable first name and in some rare cases three syllables.

However, with that said, it is becoming increasingly popular with new parents these days to forgo giving their children a name derived from two chinese characters and give them a korean only name. For example, a popular new girl’s name is “Ha-Neul” which literally means Sky and others like “Seul-bi” which have no intrinsic meaning whatsoever.
As for the discussion of hangeul itself, many Koreans will tell you its the perfect system but it has some flaws. Although it is easy to learn the basics there are a lot of nuances one has to work out. There are a lot of instances of collision effects of consonants and consonants also change their sound depending on their position.

For instance the sieot (ㅅ) which is an “s” if it is the first consonant, changes to a soft “t” if it is the terminating consonant or “pachim”… but if that terminating sieot is immediately followed by a vowel then it maintains its original phonetic value of an “s”. Furthermore, if the sieot (s) is followed by the “ee” vowel, then the “s” becomes an “sh” and pronounced as in “she”. There are a lot more other examples involving other consonants and vowels that break the simple rules.

The voiced unaspirated consonants (ss, jj, kk, bb, dd) in Korean are extremely difficult for a native english speaker to not only hear but also voice. To most it usually sounds like the same as regular consonant, just louder.

[Grim_Jaa]

Oh also, Korean was for the longest time written right-left vertically like the Japanese. It was only recently (last 50 years or so I believe) that Korean switched to left-right horizontally as in english.

One amusing and notable exception is when viewing foreign movies in the theater. The korean subtitles are on the right hand side of the screen written vertically and ordered right-left. The right-left horizontal returns for DVDs and videos though.

[audiobottle]

@Grim Jaa

Some further comments from a Korean speaker and Seoul resident:

Korean certainly does not used a mixed alphabet/chinese character system as someone above mentioned.

In the past in newspapers and official documents you would see some chinese characters but these days even the major newspapers rarely use them except in very specific circumstances and there are some major dailies who never use them. Further, Korean chinese characters are called Han-ja.

Ah, that’d be my mistake (jaesong hamnida!). I haven’t been back to Korea in about 6-7 years, and last time I was there I remember seeing the date done with Han-ja, not Han-gul. Also, I didn’t mean to imply that it was as mixed as say, Japanese is. Just that it gets some use in Korean. If my 9 year old twin oh-chon (I have no idea what relation it is in English; the Korean system of naming relatives is definitely better than the English) are any indication, they still teach Han-ja in schools.
To add to the example of oddities within Korean, the biup has a b sound when used first, and often, but not always, gets turned to a sort of m-ish sound when in the patchim.
I’ve found that my English speaking friends have a very difficult time with voicing the eeyung when in the patchim as well.
Lastly, please forgive me of any slaughtering I’ve done of Korean words written in English. I don’t know what the rules are for transcribing it.

[Grim_Jaa]

@audiobottle

Ah, that’d be my mistake (jaesong hamnida!). I haven’t been back to Korea in about 6-7 years, and last time I was there I remember seeing the date done with Han-ja, not Han-gul.

You’re absolutely correct in that instance. The date is still very commonly done with Han-ja.

Also, I didn’t mean to imply that it was as mixed as say, Japanese is. Just that it gets some use in Korean. If my 9 year old twin oh-chon (I have no idea what relation it is in English; the Korean system of naming relatives is definitely better than the English) are any indication, they still teach Han-ja in schools.

Its definately still taught it schools. But I imagine its much like cursive writing with westerners.

To add to the example of oddities within Korean, the biup has a b sound when used first, and often, but not always, gets turned to a sort of m-ish sound when in the patchim.

Yes, this is a good example of the collision effect. When the biup is followed by the niun (n) the biup is voiced as the mium (m).

Lastly, please forgive me of any slaughtering I’ve done of Korean words written in English. I don’t know what the rules are for transcribing it.

I wouldn’t worry about it. The Korean government only recently finally standardized the Korean to Roman Character transliteration. However the system sucks and its only use is for standardization and not accuracy.

[Doobieous]

@Grim Jaa

Some further comments from a Korean speaker and Seoul resident:

Korean certainly does not used a mixed alphabet/chinese character system as someone above mentioned.

\

Hi, yeah, thanks for mentioning me as “someone”

Well, from everything I’ve read, most things written for the general populace don’t use hanja. However, lots of academic publications do. So I think you need to revise that to say “generally doesn’t use a mixed alphabet/Chinese character system”.

You may want to write both the editors of “The World’s Writing Systems” and the owner of omniglot.com to correct them:

"Since 1949 hanja have not been used at all in any North Korean publications, with the exception of a few textbooks and specialized books. In the late 1960s the teaching of hanja was reintroduced in North Korean schools however and school children are expected to learn 2,000 characters by the end of high school.

In South Korea school children are expected to learn 1,800 hanja by the end of high school. The proportion of hanja used in Korean texts varies greatly from writer to writer and there is considerable public debate about the role of hanja in Korean writing.

Most modern Korean literature and informal writing is written entirely in hangeul, however academic papers and official documents tend to be written in a mixture of hangeul and hanja."

So, is that not the case still?

[audiobottle]

@Doobieous

Most modern Korean literature and informal writing is written entirely in hangeul, however academic papers and official documents tend to be written in a mixture of hangeul and hanja."

So, is that not the case still?

No, it’s still the case. Hanja is to Korean what Latin is to English. There are also cases where the word can be ambiguous when written in Hangul but in Hanja it is clear. I’d say they teach it more than Latin is taught here, but it’s a fairly close analogy.

[Doobieous]

@audiobottle

No, it’s still the case. Hanja is to Korean what Latin is to English. There are also cases where the word can be ambiguous when written in Hangul but in Hanja it is clear. I’d say they teach it more than Latin is taught here, but it’s a fairly close analogy.

Thank you, Audiobottle

I see. I was a bit confused by what Grim Jaa said when he said Korean doesn’t use a mixed script, because I’ve seen it with my very own eyes in the local Korean papers and advertisements here in California.

Grimm Jaa:

So, Grimm Jaa, if Korean “certainly does not” use a mixed system, then why are the Maeil Business Newspaper, and the Maeil Shinmun using Hanja:

http://www.mk.co.kr/
http://www.m2000.co.kr/