[QUOTE=The Them]
Watch me as I manage to get myself beat up by everyone.
Someone whose name begins with C is skating awfully close to what is commonly derided as “moral relativism.” Who cares if some people do good because they believe? John Wayne Gacy was not excused because he ALSO dressed as a clown and made children happy.
As a practical matter, I take one look at the history of faith- or the history of the faithful, if that’s more accurate- and recoil with horror. Xianity (for example) is one long VICIOUS criminal spree, with occasional tears shed at the graves of the victims. After this long, we can safely assert that the behavioral trends of this belief system are well established. How could efforts to stamp out this evil disease POSSIBLY make things worse? If all I can do is injure some xian’s (or other faithful’s) feelings by shooting off my mouth, then I’ll do that. Maybe I’ll get lucky and they’ll all drop dead from the sheer grotesqueness of my blasphemy.
With a slightly slower heartbeat…so this guy in LA wised up. Good for him; he’s a plus for the nice column. But I have to wonder, why did he have to be slapped so hard, in his case with the most recent priest rapist scandals, before he, y’know, noticed? And so many Catholics still attack the victims. Not as directly, perhaps; now it takes the form of, “Of course we feel sorry for the victims, but asking for money from the Church is…”
Deep breaths…I’m with testy. No matter how gracefully or otherwise they put their cherished notions, this stuff is threatening and terrifying.
There are people I like a lot who happen to be religious, of course. My aunt is one. I don’t really hold it against individuals, that they think something silly. But what is there to debate? In the face of the historical record, the details of doctrine and the sincerity of the few kind ones seem kind of irrelevent.
You can all attack me for my incoherent post, now. I’ve calmed down. 
[/QUOTE]
I don’t think your post is incoherent.
If I’m the C {no need to be subtle} then let me clearly state that I do believe there is a universal standard. Since we are beings made up of intellect and the sometimes irrational and unconscious motives of our emotions we won’t all agree on what that standard is. We strive together to find something that works.
We must take responsibility for our actions, the good and the bad. Any positive acts by Gacy are what they are. If he fed a hungry homeless person then great. That does not add or subtract from any other act and he {and all of us} must bear the responsibility and the consequences for each act.
I don’t think you’re suggesting that the kind hearted generous christian bears the responsibility of the prejudice asshole christian, are you?
I too am horrified by some of the history of Christianity. Having come from a Christian background I’ve also seen the generous loving hearts of many Christians. Considering the millions of believers down through the generations and the contributions they have made I don’t think the historical record is as clear as you think. I don’t think the kind hearted ones are as few as you think. IMHO the problems people see in religion are problems within humanity. The issues go deeper than religion and faith based beliefs, and the solutions are harder to put our finger on. They exist within the believer and the non believer.
If I said history shows governments commit heinous acts of war and destruction so we should get rid of all governments the idea would be dismissed as goofy, yet historically speaking, isn’t that correct?
I see an essential part of humanities growth and a real connection within our very nature as beings between the desire to know and understand from which superstition springs, and real understanding. We can’t be rid of it so we must turn our energies to trying to understand it and direct it.
