(Lack of) Female Commercial Pilots

Factual Questions
1

We were going over WWII in my “Women in American History II” class today, and Prof. Sentilles said there were several female pilots in our country to help out the war effort - something like 1,000 WASPs flew planes. And yet you’d be hard-pressed to find a woman flying a commercial plane today. Why is that? What glass ceiling is still in place here? Prof. Sentilles said she met the first African-American woman to fly for (I think) Northwest airlines not too long ago, and the pilot was only in her late 20s! In other words, her signing up was fairly recent!

One of my classmates suggested that the price of flight school could have something to do with it (one school charges over $7,700). Of course, that expense would be tough on men as well. Any ideas out there?

Patty

2

Some good answers can be found in the old thread Women drivers - never in the skies?

3

Well, I can tell you that there is a paucity of women in General Aviation. And since most pilots get their first training in GA, that would mean less women are being funneled upward.

I just got my Private Pilot ticket last year, and I knew of only one young-ish female student. She got her ticket shortly after me, and interestingly, was told by several pro pilots that she should seriously think about going for her instrument and commercial ratings quickly. They said that as a young woman, she would have a good shot at a professional job precisely because there are so few of them.

It’s certainly possible that women just aren’t made to feel welcome in aviation. Although the girl I mentioned has a good reputation around my airport, I often hear the male pilots stand around and talk about the problems brought about by allowing “broads” to fly. So it would appear that we male pilots need a little sensitivity training…

4

I thought most airline pilots started in the armed forces. Most military pilots are men. So most airline pilots are men.

5

I’ve flown on more than a few flights that had female pilots, and two flights in particular had a full female flight crew. Granted there are a lot less female pilots than males, but just like any other job that is shown as having lower percentages of minorities or women than they “should”, I’d be willing to wager that if the number of women pilots is compared to the number of women pilot applicants, that the numbers are fairly proportional. I was once at Delta’s HQ in Atlanta during a hiring process, and there was a waiting room that had approximately 50 pilot applicants, only one of them being a female. A company that I once worked was on the chopping block for only having 2% of it’s workers as black. In that year alone, we had over 100 open positions and advertised in every major newspaper in southern CA and had over 2000 applicants. Not a single applicant was black. But it was being shown as the companies fault.

6

Well, gosh, being both female and flying I guess I’ll just wade in here.

First mentioned in the thread - cost of flight school. Getting your private license - first step on the ladder - costs about $6,000. Then you need an instrument rating, commercial, and usually you get a flight instructor rating in there too. Then you need to get experience in multi-engine aircraft, little jets, big jets… some of those planes cost several hundred dollars (or more) an hour to rent - and you need more than just a few hours.

Yep, the training required to become an airline pilot is extremely expensive. But that affects men and women equally, so I don’t think that’s it. It’s costs lots to become a doctor, too, but there’s a higher percentage of female docs than female pilots.

OK, let’s talk about growing up in society. When I was 7 years old I went into a hobby shop to buy a model airplane. I got laughed at and told “girls don’t fly planes!” Unlike boys, who are encouraged to do these things. Yes, I think this has some effect on the numbers of women getting into aviation. On the plus side, when I go into hobby and model shops these days I actually do see girls there and no one laughs at them any more.

Let’s talk about the rest of society. My experience as a female pilot has largely been one of acceptance by my fellow (male) pilots. However, girlfriends and wives of my flying buddies are frequently extremely hostile towards me. I don’t know why - I might steal their husband’s airplane, but certainly not their husband! I run into what I call “tourists” who say things like “Oh - your husband is a pilot and you ride with him, right?” (Uh, no - I’m the pilot. He’s too busy taking pictures of scenery to bother with it) “You here with your boyfriend?” There have been people who watch me land, get out of an airplane that obviously has only one person in it, then state flatly that they don’t believe women can fly. Oh, and one of my “favorites” - “you’ll stop doing that when you have kids, right?” Like it’s somehow more acceptable for a father to kill himself in an airplane than for a mother to do so (which is usually what seems to be implied). I just love the line “you don’t LOOK LIKE a pilot!” (And your point is…?) And, oh yes, I get accused of being a dyke fairly often - I suppose under the assumption that women who like to play with heavy machinery are butch, macho, and lesbian. Fortunately, both my husband and I have a good laugh over those comments. I hear folks on airlines expound at length about how relieved they are it’s not a woman flying the plane. Yes, I think that has some effect on women going into aviation.

Flying is still perceived as risky. Women, in general, are less inclined to do risky stuff than men. Is this society or biology? I don’t know, I just know that right now it is. Fewer women are the necessary sort of “risk-accepting” personality required for flying. Yes, I think that affects the numbers, too.

The military angle used to be a significant factor - although there have been women military pilots since WWII, most military pilots have been and are men. When most airline hires were military, that definitely skewed the stats. Now, however, 60% of new airline hires are strictly civilian trained. And there there are more women flying for the armed forces than ever before. So this is much less a factor now.

There is also an “oogy” factor - you wind up with a certain amount of grease on your hands. Sounds dumb, but some women just don’t want to get their hands dirty. Me, I just spent 2 hours at the airport tonight helping a mechanic take care of a gas tank problem - sometimes that’s what it takes. More guys do their car repair work than women - why is that? Whatever the reason(s) is - that’s one more factor. If you want to be a pilot you have to learn something about the mechanics of how things work. I’m amazed at how many women think they can’t do that. Sure they can, it’s not rocket science! (For that matter, there are female rocket scientists, too)

I started flying in ultralights. Men to women ratio: 400:1 Now I’m in general aviation - 20:1 I heard that as many as 1 in 12 commercial pilots are female - in which case they have a higher representation among the professionals than among non-professional pilots. There’s no question (among pilots) that women are just as capable, and in fact statistically we are less likely to get into an accident. There’s also no question there are fewer of us than men. I think one reason a lot of the women who fly do it for living is because they are more driven than men - there’s a lot more crap we get from society for choosing that path, so the only ones who stay the course are the truly gonzo.

Me, I’m happy to keep it as a hobby, at least for now. But so what? I have a blast.

7

Man, you people are GOOD! This thread is just two hours old and its received a lot of response! I’m happy to have the link to the year old thread on the same subject - funny how that didn’t come up during my initial word search.

I DO love this board!

Patty

8

Because of your post, I’ve e-mailed this thread’s link to my prof and plan to download your bit just to show around. Amazing the things you’ve been asked as a pilot - perhaps you should add them to the “Stupid Questions” thread? Some of those are doozies.

Again, thank you so much for sharing your story with us.

Sincerely,
Patty

9

At the close of World War II most economists were pessimistic. The prevailing wisdom was that wartime deficit spending had buoyed the economy. The rest of the developed world was in worse shape than during the Depression, so of course a downturn was around the corner.

Women who had held wartime jobs in nontraditional fields were laid off en masse to make room for returning GIs. Some of the women organized in resistance. They didn’t get far.

That’s the background. Let’s say you’re a hiring manager for a commercial airline in 1945. You’re probably receiving a flood of applications from pilots leaving the armed services. Commercial air travel is in its infancy. You get the pick of the crop. Who do you hire, a full colonel flying ace with a chest full of medals or some woman who flew transport missions?

American armed forces have expanded the roles of female fliers in recent years. In a separate move they also changed pilot compensation to improve reenlistment. Today fewer commercial pilots come from military backgrounds.

The percentage of female pilots in general aviation is around 2-3% if I remember correctly. Training is extremely expensive. While $7000 sounds about right for hobbyist training, a ballpark figure for commercial qualification would be more like $30,000. That comes out of the pilot’s own pocket.

When you combine a high cost with high risk there’s great pressure on women not to become principal participants. As a former semipro athlete in a very different field I’ve seen it firsthand: much discouragement comes in the form of unsolicited advice.

10

Broomstick, you rock. I’ve always wanted to learn to fly but could never afford it! However, I did drive a truck OTR for several years, and the moronic comments never ceased to amaze me. “You drove all the way from California?”…Uh no, actually I picked up the damn semi and carried it across country. Heavens, l’il old me can’t actually drive that big scary thing. :rolleyes: I actually trained some male drivers

>>There’s no question (among pilots) that women are just as capable, and in fact statistically we are less likely to get into an accident. There’s also no question there are fewer of us than men. I think one reason a lot of the women who fly do it for living is because they are more driven than men - there’s a lot more crap we get from society for choosing that path, so the only ones who stay the course are the truly gonzo. <<

Precisely. :slight_smile:

I actually know a couple who both fly for United. She flies international flights (and she’s a captain.) He flies domestically. Both were in the air force. I think that’s a factor, too: men are much more likely to go into the armed forces, as SmackFu said.

11

Excellent post, Broomstick!

I’d definitely like to see more women flying. Yeah, that’s the ticket. More single women… :wink: :smiley: :stuck_out_tongue:

12

I can’t remember where I recently heard this from but FWIW women supposedly have better hand-eye coordination than men, better decision making ability under stress than men and can withstand higher g-force loads before blacking out (stronger lower body in general). I heard this specifically in response to something about female military pilots being allowed to fly combat aircraft (i.e. they’d probably be better than their male counterparts if they). (Sorry but I do not have a cite for this. Also, I know there are a very few females allowed to fly combat aircraft but I believe they are still extremely few and far between.)

Anyway, the upshot is you’re probably a bit safer with a female behind the yoke than a male so seek out those flights with female pilots if you can!

13

I’ve heard also that there are people in the Navy who believe that women would make ideal submariners (smaller, eat less, psychologically tougher against the effects of longterm confinement) and that it would probably provide an advantage to go to all female crews, but there is strong political resistance to this. It seems the general public (or those telling them what’s right) is resistant to put women in roles that are generally considered high-risk.

14

Since how women are underrepresented in commercial aviation and airlines are wanting to hire more pilots, there could be money made here if you had enough money.

Actively seek out young women who are interested in being pilots, and select those who seem like they would be the most talented. Make them sign a contract promising to pay you 10% or 20% of whatever they make flying planes for the rest of their lives (maybe take out life, disability, and unemployment insurance policies on them too). Put up the several hundred thousand it would take to train each of them (or perhaps hire somebody to train them if that would be more economical) and get them jobs for major airlines.

You would have a fairly reliable source of income for a while if you could find enough pilots. It would provide high paying jobs for hundreds of women, help the airlines bring equality to the skies (I bet you could get some help from them too), and get more women besides those you scouted out into aviation as well, as some will figure out ways to put themselves through school without having to give up a percentage of their future income, while others would copy your idea if it was successful - in fact, this would probably not be the kind of business that gets passed down to your descendents, eventually there would be no need for your service.

15

So you’re going to pimp airline pilots, Badtz?

Sexism seems to pervade that industry, but it’s both in the industry employees and the customers. I remember reading about (vague enough for you?) a female pilot who would announce before the flight that she was the captain and ask anyone who was uncomfortable with a woman pilot to leave the plane. And a couple people would get off the plane. Ridiculous.

16

I have no real reason to doubt those figures, but I don’t see why it would be relevant to the proportion of female pilots today. Women were pressed into many jobs during World War II (Rosie the Riveter in the defense plants, for example), but those jobs became predominantly (or in the case of military pilots, exclusively) male again once the war was over. Any WASPs who went on to fly for the airlines would have retired by now, and there weren’t any ex-servicewomen pilots to replace them until the last decade or so.

Was this a deliberate red herring, or is it possible your professor is teaching from a 30-year-old syllabus?

17

Heh heh, now that you made me think of it that way, yep. I imagine it takes a lot more effort and money to make a woman into a pilot than into a whore, however.

18

The Soviets let women fly combat missions during WWII. A number of their flying aces were female. See The Encyclopedia of Amazons.

19

The number of female commercial pilots has almost doubled in the last 10 years, but the percentages are still small. A good reference to pilot statistics and demographics is here:
http://www.api.faa.gov/airmen/toc.htm

The number of female pilots (not air transport or commercial pilots) has actually declined in the last 10 years. So too has the number of active pilots in the U.S.

Getting people into aviation training is an industry-wide problem. It’s perceived as expensive, difficult and unsafe by many people – and it’s not easy but can be fun and very useful. Many believe that poor marketing on the behalf of the local flight training schools is major contributing factor to the decline in pilot-training starts.

Both military training and the GI Bill caused a rise in pilot training after WWII. Traditionally the military has provided more than 50% of the trained airline pilots. But now those pilots are retiring and an increasing percentage of pilots are coming from private flight schools, such as Embry-Riddle.

If you’re considering becoming a pilot – try it! There are lots of levels of participation: you can be 50 years old and don’t have to plan to become an airline pilot. You can learn to fly for about the same amount of $$ as learning to sail or do anything else.

20

Women have better hand-eye coordination for fine work (very much on average - there are many men who have excellent hand-eye coordination, too) as opposed to greater strength. Since most aircraft require a very light touch on the controls fine control is more important than strength.

I don’t know about the “better decisions under stress” part. It could be that because female pilots tend to take fewer risks than their male counterparts (personal observation, again on average) they don’t get into as many such stressful situations in the first place as men do.

Women do have a slight advantage over men in withstanding g-forces, even after correcting for height and weight differences (shorter folks tend to be more resistant to high-g forces, too). No one is quite sure why this is. Women are also slightly more resistant to air sickness (again, on average - I’m seen some pretty impressive upchuck results from females in airplanes)

Women have a slightly better ability to “multi-task” than men do. On the other hand, men are slightly better able to concentrate on just one thing to the exclusion of all others. Since, while flying, you have to simultaneously pay attention to many things at once this may give a slight edge to women (once again, on average) in many flying situations.

But I think (IMO) the biggest factor in women being safer pilots is the testosterone factor. There are certain macho tendencies in aviation and the need to prove bravery or manliness can and does result in dangerous situations that can and do kill people. The “hey, watch this!” syndrome. There have been occassions where I have been urged to “prove” something, at which point I look the jerk in the eye and sweetly say “The best part of being a woman is never having to prove what kind of man I am.”

On the other hand - the boys have a distinct advantage over me in pulling airplanes out of a hangar and any other job around an airport where strength is required. Still, I’ve never been faulted for asking for help, maybe because I do what I can and only ask for help when I need it instead of expecting the men to wait on me.

I’d say something about cockpits being sized for people about 6 inches taller than me, but there are a heck of a lot of short guys who fly. Some of my best flying buddies are even smaller than I am and have collections of seat cushions and rudder pedal extenders.

Anyhow, any time I walk into an airport I can tell immediately who the employees and pilots are and who the “tourists” are. The tourists automatically assume I am not a pilot, the employees look and me and ask “are you a pilot?” or, if I’m with someone else (almost invariably male) “which of you is the pilot?”, and the other pilots seem to just know I’m a pilot a good chunk of the time.

But all this talk of male/female really is just averages. Men on average have superior spatial visualization abilities, too, but all the female pilots I know have vastly better 3-D visual skills than the average man. Men are taller than women on average, but there are a lot of women over 6 feet tall and a lot of men under 5 foot 6. It may well be that when you add up all the “men do better” and “women do better” skills involved in flying that slightly more men in the general population are suited to being pilots than women - but so what? In an activity that should be basd on ability rather than gender (since the aircraft doesn’t care and the laws of physics don’t care about gender)I’m much more concerned about the skills and sense of a pilot than their gender, height, age, race, or any other attribute irrelevant to the task at hand - getting the aircraft off the ground and back on again in one piece.