[QUOTE=SHAKES]
I hear ladies talk about this from time to time when they are talking about past dates and or potential mates. They complain: “He has no friends”
Why is this such an issue? I can see why it might be an issue if he’s constantly badgering you since he has none of his own friends to occcupy his time. Are there other things I’m missing here?
[/QUOTE]
The fact is, women are attracted to the alpha male, top dog, etc. What kind of top dog can you be if you have no friends?
[QUOTE=Polerius]
The fact is, women are attracted to the alpha male, top dog, etc. What kind of top dog can you be if you have no friends?
[/QUOTE]
Bingo. No friends=low status loser.
Friends=social proof.
Wow, it’s a good thing this concept isn’t universally true. When I met my now-wife, I had no friends. Well, I had friends, just none nearby. I had just moved to the area, had only been there a couple of months when I met her. I eventually made plenty of friends, and better yet, we made friends together, some that we’ve now known for more than 16 years.
Of course, being new in town is different from having no friends, but in a practical, everyday sense, at that time I had no friends.
[QUOTE=Rigamarole]
I don’t know. I don’t think anyone really forms friendships with the opposite sex if they don’t, at least on some subconscious level, want to have sex with them. (at least, this is by and large the case with men who seek out friendships with women. It may not work the other way, I don’t know)
[/QUOTE]
Careful now…
I got slammed big time for expressing just this idea. Apparently if you believe this you are a sad, superficial, limited, blind, shell of a human - or so I am told.
The misogyny on the SDMB never, ever fails to let me down. Fight that ignorance, kids!
[QUOTE=Beware of Doug]
I suppose I could disguise my self-dramatizing streak as nice nasty masculine anger. :mad: So maybe I AM melodramatic, buster. What’s it to YOU?
[/QUOTE]
There, that’s better. 
Seriously, self-pity is one of the least attractive traits a person can have. If you think you’re hiding your feelings from potential mates, you’re kidding yourself. I suspect you’ve got yourself firmly entrenched in a negative feedback loop - you are angry and self-pitying because dating doesn’t turn out well, and dating doesn’t turn out well because you’re angry and self-pitying. You can make all the excuses you want, but if your life isn’t going the way you want to with what you’re doing, it seems obvious that you need to change what you’re doing. I’m not saying these things to attack you, either - you’re coming across as unhappy and unsure how to get happier. You can get happier, but not doing the same things you’ve always done, and not without realizing your own role in your unhappiness.
[QUOTE=Twotwofive]
But women hate it when men spend time with their friends (my wife’s favourite is “I don’t want to be like those women who won’t let their husbands go out with the boys, but…”).
[/quote]
I believe you missed a word - it should read, “immature women hate it when men spend time with their friends…”
If that’s how women in your world act, you have my sincere sympathy.
[QUOTE=An Arky]
Of course, being new in town is different from having no friends, but in a practical, everyday sense, at that time I had no friends.
[/QUOTE]
Right but the point is you had no friends because you were new in town, not because you were a retardo.
[QUOTE=Twotwofive]
But women hate it when men spend time with their friends (my wife’s favourite is “I don’t want to be like those women who won’t let their husbands go out with the boys, but…”).
My theory is that if a guy has lots of friends, the woman can make him sacrifice them all as a sign of committment. If he has no life to begin with, she has nothing to take from him, meaning there is no point in pursuing the relationship.
[/quote]
Women hate it when you spend ALL your time with the boys. Women generally like nice, goodlooking, fun, outgoing, successful guys. You know, the type with lots of friends. They generally don’t like being ignored or feeling left out. Kind of like all people.
If your woman gets on your case because you spend too much time with the boys and YOU ARE SPENDING THURS, FRI AND SAT WITH THE BOYS she may have a point. Usually one night with the guys and one “ladies night” is acceptible.
My friend was dating this psycho chick and her psycho friend was like “you don’t ever want her to go out or have any other friends”. We both agreed that was bullshit and that we want nothing but for our girlfriends to have lots of friends and hobbies. The more time they spend doing other stuff, the less time they spend sitting around getting bitter that we’re out drinking until 4:00am.
I’m usually like these little smell tests, but I think the “he has no friends” thing is pretty dumb. All my guy friends up and got married in the last couple years, they do married couple stuff with other married couples now.
Married Guy Friend: “Hay, want to drive to suburbia, see our kids and grill steaks?”
Grossbottom Thinks: “No, no I do not. You’re my bro, but your wife hates me and always did, your boychild is dense, and the entire situation serves as an exquisitely painful reminder that this is either what awaits me or what I will fail to achieve, not sure which. Plus, your cheap ass cannot pick steaks, this is known.”
Grossbottom Actually Says: “Nah, man, love to but I’m going crazy this weekend with a bunch of stuff. Some other time, okay?”
So my non-romantic social options are: 1) tag along with my guy friends who are divorced and over 45, or 2) hang around with friends that are girls. The first one is boring and makes me feel out of place, and the second one isn’t the kind of friends other girls like to see with this test.
I think the friends test is basically some sort of high school-level thing that doesn’t work too well past a certain point in our society, but betties malfunction and keep using it. So I just bullshit my way through it and tell her I’m spending time with friends when in reality I’m just enjoying time being solitary because I like that too. And if she wants to see evidence of friends we can drive out to BFE and grill some steaks with some nice people who are thinking of investing heavily in t-ball equipment. That shit makes me want to get drunk in a Hanoi motel room and attack a mirror, but whatever, I’ll put on my happy face.
The test does make a tiny bit o’ sense as far as making sure you’re not dating a complete social recluse with mental health problems, but otherwise I think it’s dumb. Personally, when I meet someone cute who has no friends, I want to bring her into my (dwindling) social circle and be a friend to her (and maybe more, yay), rather than exclude her for not being popular enough. Women are different I guess, but all in all, it’s a fairly dubious social yardstick that doesn’t reflect very well upon the compassion of the person using it.
Like she wants to make sure there will be enough people in the limo when we go to prom. Whatever, like bastards don’t have buddies too? It’s certainly no way to pick or judge a man, but that’s my opinion.
Most people fall somewhere in the middle between no friends/complete loner and lots of friends/party animal. I think you will be happy in a relationship if you find someone who is in roughly the same place as you are.
If that place is on the no friends end, by choice, then so be it. You can still have a good relationship as long as the other person is also towards that end. Online dating is good for those people because, let’s face it, they aren’t likely to meet otherwise in day-to-day life.
It doesn’t mean you will be overly clingy or prone to smashing your partner’s head through a window (Jesus, where did that come from?)
[QUOTE=davenportavenger]
The misogyny on the SDMB never, ever fails to let me down. Fight that ignorance, kids!
[/QUOTE]
It never failes.
“Wah! I can’t get a date”
“Why do you think that is?”
“Well women all blah blah blah blah blah…”
Women are just people, folks. People are selfish, controlling, shallow and lame. There is not a single thing in this thread that hasn’t been said just as often by women about men. Maligning the gender you are in to, or really any group of people, isn’t going to endear you to them.
Eh, let them have their fun. They’re clearly not getting any.
Has anyone noticed that while there are several “I have no friends and there’s nothing wrong with me.” posts, there *aren’t * any “My significant other has no friends, and there’s nothing wrong with him/her.”
[QUOTE=featherlou]
There, that’s better.
[/quote]
whew. Glad I got it off my chest then. :dubious:
You don’t know the half of it, dearie. You’ve heard of Catch-22? I’ve got it coming and going. I’ve got Catch-44! And I’m tired of fighting it, but that’s the only way out. I’ll have to learn to love myself and fight myself at the same time – while being open and kind to people and doing things I no longer have the luxury of believing in.
I think I need the Zen Master to slam the gate and break my hand. Or maybe my skull.
[QUOTE=DianaG]
Eh, let them have their fun. They’re clearly not getting any.
[/QUOTE]
Wow. That really doesn’t disprove the OP’s implication that women are condemning men for their lack of social (or in the case of your comment, sexual) success.
In fact, it sort of proves it.
A person, or the merit of his arguments, is to be judged (or written off, or denigrated) on the basis of whether he can procure sex?
Unfortunately, this is not an uncommon attitude among some women.
Here’s one – my GF has few close female (or male) friends and I do not think the less of her for it. Occasionally it puts pressure on me when I have to listen to all the problems and chatter that she might otherwise work out with the girls, but I think of her in a positive light, as an introvert, not as a loser. She also had comparatively few friends when I met her. My reaction was not – “Loser!” It was “Cool – she’s got more time available if we want to do stuff together.”
Not true, emprically, IME or that I suspect of many others here. I have rarely if ever heard a man deride a woman as a “loser” because she doesn’t have a lot of friends. (OTOH, my heart has sunk on occasions when some sorority-type girl starts describing her packed social calendar in a way that makes it clear that friends are trophies or that parties are taking the place of an inner life).
I have rarely if ever heard a man dismiss an otherwise-attractive-to-him woman as a dating prospect because “she can’t get any” or because she is not visibly sought-after by other men (in my callow youth, in fact, I dreamed of finding the cute girl (of the dumb teen movie plot) who “no one had noticed,” because she wouldn’t be besieged by rival offers – far be it from me to denigrate such a woman, if she existed, but women often look at men who don’t have female admirers as defective or undesirable).
[QUOTE=Huerta88]
Wow. That really doesn’t disprove the OP’s implication that women are condemning men for their lack of social (or in the case of your comment, sexual) success.
In fact, it sort of proves it.
[/QUOTE]
Erm, in addition to being a joke (definition provided for your convenience!), that remark was aimed at people who make misogynistic assumptions, not people who have no friends.
Thanks for playing, though.
[QUOTE=DianaG]
Erm, in addition to being a joke (definition provided for your convenience!), that remark was aimed at people who make misogynistic assumptions, not people who have no friends.
Thanks for playing, though.
[/QUOTE]
I know what a joke is, thanks. I also know what a mean-spirited dismissive dig meant to emasculate is.
“Women [IME] don’t always give the time of day to guys without demonstrated social status” is a debatable premise based on experience the OP and others seem to have had in the real world, not a misogynistic “assumption.”
A misogynistic assumption would be, “You’re only arguing as you are 'cause you’re on the rag,” which is pretty much the equivalent of your dig. I haven’t seen anyone here make such an assumption (and if they did, I wouldn’t explain it away as a “joke,” it not being very funny).
[QUOTE=Beware of Doug]
You don’t know the half of it, dearie. You’ve heard of Catch-22? I’ve got it coming and going. I’ve got Catch-44! And I’m tired of fighting it, but that’s the only way out. I’ll have to learn to love myself and fight myself at the same time – while being open and kind to people and doing things I no longer have the luxury of believing in.
I think I need the Zen Master to slam the gate and break my hand. Or maybe my skull.
[/QUOTE]
It couldn’t hurt.
For Pete’s sake, I’ve never met you and, based purely on your postings in this thread (and similar relationship threads) I wouldn’t date you on a stone-cold dare. Martyr much? Self-pity isn’t an attractive emotion, bub. Nobody - male or female (before you get a chance to blame my entire, cold-hearted gender for your lack o’ social life) - enjoys spending time with someone whose dominant thought pattern appears to be “Oh woe is me”.
You never rise to the level of a consideration about whether or not you have friends - it sounds like you’re miserable, and miserable people are flat-out no damn fun to be around. It’s a harsh fact of life. If you’re unfortunate enough to be miserable and not have any friends to stick with you through your misery, then you’re either going to have to go through it alone, or meet other people who are equally miserable - and therefore no fun to be with themselves.
I’m infinitely glad my dating days are over. I’ve been there, done that. I spent my own fair share of time in a prolonged dating dry spell - and I’m telling you what was told me (since it was accurate then and remains so still). You must be a valueable person with much to recommend you (after all, you’re a Doper, geez). But spending all your time in an extended pity party because you’ve yet to have a Harlequin Romance Novel Moment wherein you lock gazes with your One True Love across a crowded room and you both know you’re Destined For Each Other and fall into each other’s arms profession passion and undying love is not a helpful thing. It’s actually profoundly stupid and almost certainly guaranteed to cause you to wind up alone.
I don’t care if you ever learn to love yourself - actually I think that particular phrase is quite possibly the single most irritating piece of pseudopsychobabble ever, right up there with the use of the word “actualize”. Really, learning to love yourself isn’t necessary. What is necessary is not carting around (and inflicting all over anyone in your general vicinity) self-pity, martyrdom and bitterness.
The whole “does he have friends” thing isn’t so much a test (at least when applied by fully adult women as opposed to the permanently trapped in high school pretenders) as it is a question to be asked and answered - not unlike questions about religious orientation or career choices. If an adult human being has no friends at all - you gotta wonder why. Are they new in town? Speak the language? Have no time because they spend all their free time catering to Mamma? Work 100 hours a week? Lack any semblance of social skills? Recently released from an institution of some form (penal or mental)? Member of a terrorist cell? Relgious cult member? It’s something that gives you pause - because there are both perfectly acceptable explanations and scary explanations. And the classification of those explanations are different based on who you are.
You also have to wonder, if a person you’re dating has not a friend in the world, how they’re going to manage to be a good friend to you. I couldn’t date someone who wasn’t my friend (tried it once - to call it a spectacular failure is to miss a golden opportunity to use the word “stupendous”). It also calls into question whether or not they’ll be clingy.
It’s also important if you’re contemplating a relationship with him - as anyone dating a person more than once or twice probably is. Are your social preferences compatible? If I were a social butterfly, I’d be unhappy with a guy who had to be levered out of the house with a crowbar. Conversely, I personally would be miserable with a social butterfly - I have a small handful of close friends, and that’s the way I like it.
[QUOTE=Huerta88]
Not true, emprically, IME or that I suspect of many others here. I have rarely if ever heard a man deride a woman as a “loser” because she doesn’t have a lot of friends. (OTOH, my heart has sunk on occasions when some sorority-type girl starts describing her packed social calendar in a way that makes it clear that friends are trophies or that parties are taking the place of an inner life).
I have rarely if ever heard a man dismiss an otherwise-attractive-to-him woman as a dating prospect because “she can’t get any” or because she is not visibly sought-after by other men (in my callow youth, in fact, I dreamed of finding the cute girl (of the dumb teen movie plot) who “no one had noticed,” because she wouldn’t be besieged by rival offers – far be it from me to denigrate such a woman, if she existed, but women often look at men who don’t have female admirers as defective or undesirable).
[/QUOTE]
I think maybe your memory is selective and your experience not universal (funny how often that comes up…). As a teenage loner I definitely experienced a lack of dating options because I was not part of the “in” group of girls, and dating me would have imperiled the social status and future dating options of any guy that did.
Sure, I could have probably dated the fat guy who smells bad and picks his nose in class, but most any guy could also date the fat girl who smells bad and picks her nose in class. The problem is rarely “I can’t get anyone in the world to date me” and is far more often “I can’t get someone I consider attractive to date me.”, which often involves the same judgments and preferences that you claim put you at such an unfair disadvantage.
Well, I have no problem having standards about who I will date. That the guy has at least a couple of social skills, and a friend or two that he can call on occasion and hang out with is one of them.
Shit - when a person - man or woman - has NO ONE in their life, what role do they think a prospective SO is going to play? I don’t want to be someone’s social life. I certainly don’t want to be their only source of emotional support (although I certainly don’t mind being the primary one) and I will NOT be someone’s entire life.
God - thinking about it makes me feel sick to my stomach.
Yech.
Finally, Beware of Doug - you really need to lighten up. You haven’t had success with women? Well, welcome to the club - from what I gather there are about 2 billion members. If you want romance, the easiest way to achieve it is to work on yourself until you’re someone a woman would want to have a romance with. Cliche? Yes. True? Hell yes.
[QUOTE=Aangelica]
The whole “does he have friends” thing isn’t so much a test (at least when applied by fully adult women as opposed to the permanently trapped in high school pretenders) as it is a question to be asked and answered - not unlike questions about religious orientation or career choices. If an adult human being has no friends at all - you gotta wonder why. Are they new in town? Speak the language? Have no time because they spend all their free time catering to Mamma? Work 100 hours a week? Lack any semblance of social skills? Recently released from an institution of some form (penal or mental)? Member of a terrorist cell? Relgious cult member? It’s something that gives you pause - because there are both perfectly acceptable explanations and scary explanations. And the classification of those explanations are different based on who you are.
You also have to wonder, if a person you’re dating has not a friend in the world, how they’re going to manage to be a good friend to you. I couldn’t date someone who wasn’t my friend (tried it once - to call it a spectacular failure is to miss a golden opportunity to use the word “stupendous”). It also calls into question whether or not they’ll be clingy.
.
[/QUOTE]
Woah duder, how about “none of the above”? I have friends that I hang out with on a regular basis, but I don’t have any close friends…as of now. Nor have I been in a serious relationship, and I’m almost in my mid 20’s.
I don’t have any close friends or a mate because:
I’m not anti-social
I’m certainly not clingy
I have fairly decent social skills
I don’t have some sort of personality disorder or mental illness