Why would an employer be so interested in making you sign something that says you <i>quit</i> when in fact you were <i>laid off</i>?
At least in California, if you quit, you do not/cannot/will not get your unemployment insurance benefits. Because unemployment insurance is a “tax”, employers pay less in, if they do not have employees constantly using up the benefits. Someone who knows the details will chime in and correct me, I’m sure.
Also, if you are laid off, it means that the company is agreeing to hire you back once there is enough work again. If they laid you off and then hired someone into the same position doing the same work, you might have grounds for a lawsuit.
Don’t sign anything saying you quit. Your company has no reason to be nice to you once they have decided to get rid of you.
The whole deal is that I get $750 if I sign it… which is hardly severance… it’s not even a full weeks pay.
So what I’m trying to decide is, do I have grounds to bargain? Or should I just take the $750.
I’m in Michigan btw… I don’t know how the Michigan Unemployment laws work and can’t find any real useful links through google.
Also, would this effect Cobra?
I was told that, here in Minnesota, if they fire you, they have to pay your unemployment, but if you quit, they don’t.
“agreeing to hire you back.”
shyeah, right. Oh, sorry. that’s a different thread…
Superfly: whether you quit, get fired, or are laid off, your rights to COBRA are not affected. I think a company might be able to contest having to allow you to continue your insurance under COBRA if you were terminated for a serious and gross dereliction of duty, but I’ve never actually heard of that happening to anyone.
You might try calling your local unemployment insurance office.
You might consider stalling a little (“Do you mind if I take a day or two to think about it and talk to my lawyer?”)
This will give you time to think about it, do some more internet searches, and possibly consult an attorney. Also, if other employees are being laid off at the same time, your employer may be more willing to make concessions after most of the others have submitted resignations.
(Standard disclaimer about legal advice).
You can search the Michigan laws here. You might also find good information at www.findlaw.com.
In general, web pages for states can be found at www.state.xx.us, where xx is the two-letter postal code for the state.
You should probably also consider contacting Michigan’s Bureau of Employment Relations. If they aren’t the right folks to ask about something like this, they can probably put you in touch with the right division of the state government.
Don’t sign anything until your sure it’s the right thing to do.
Good luck.
Thanks everyone for this advice in this stressful time.
Since laws differ from state to state you should be cautious but here is somethings to remember.
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Don’t sign anything UNLESS you are satisfied with the severence. There is NO ADVANTAGE to signing anything unless you get severence.
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Ask for a WRITTEN letter of recommendation from your boss. Most won’t refuse and later if they give you a reference that isn’t up to that letter you have a case in court. If they won’t give you a letter you should try to get it not from H/R but from one of your supervisors.
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At least in IL but also in most state they MUST pay you for accured vacation. If it is earned and being shown as a liability on the P&L it MUST be paid. They will say no but just calmly say fine I will have my lawyer talk to yours and it will be paid.
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Sick time and holiday time if tracked seperately is a CONDITIONAL BENEFIT and you aren’t entitled to it. HOWEVER if they allow you to take sick time when you aren’t sick and say they don’t care it ceases to be a conditional benefit and they MUST pay you for it. So if it is TAKE YOUR SICK DAYS NOW!!!
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YOU CAN quit a job and get unemployment. If you have a legit reason you can.
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DO NOT GIVE A FINAL RESIGNATION LETTER UNTIL YOUR LAST DAY. If you give two weeks notice they can let you go immediately and you cannot get unemployment. Calmly tell them you will give them a signed letter back dated on your last day. IF they insist tell them NO. You’re getting let go anyway. If they tell you to leave you get unemployment.
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Severence should be based on time served. A fair package is one month for every year or part year you have been employed. For example if you have wored for 2 1/2 years you should get severence equal to 3 months pay.
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Get rid of all personal things at work immediately. You are not entitled to worked produced while being paid. E-mail lists etc are not yours to take.
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If you are gay, a woman, black or a member of any other minority keep your eyes open. You may be being discriminated against.
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Lastly document EVERYTHING. Email your bosses with summary of your discussions and BCC yourself at a home email or hotmail account
Whenever I have resigned, I usually stipulate the exact date when I will stop working. This way, you give them 2 weeks notice as well as ensring that you will paid up until your date of termination. If they refuse to pay you up until that point, its the same as firing you. Most companies won’t do that because it makes them look petty (which they are). More often than not, I was told I didn’t have to come in but I would still get paid.
This is probably too obvious, but does your company have a severance plan? If so, you would lose out on it if you “quit”.
If not, it seems that they want you to give up your right to unemployment and your right to be first in line to be rehired, all for less than a week’s salary. Simple if cynical common sense says that your company is looking out for its best interests, not yours. My opinion would be to either stall for time and get some legal advice, or if that is not possible refuse to sign. The worst that happens that way is you’re out $750. Nothing to sneeze at, but you could be out a whole lot more doing it their way.
Any lawyers know if what Superfly’s company doing is even legal? If I’m understanding, they are offering to give the money only if he signs a document that both parties know to be untrue. That certainly seems like it violates some law.
As an ex-employer I think it is obvious that they are trying to get out of paying you unemployment, which will go against their record. Also if you sign the paper saying you quit, that relieves them of all liability. They aren’t offering $750 for nothing.
I’d also like to add that many times companies like to say, “We’ve have a no lay-off policy.” which can really mean, “We’ll hound people and nail them for every single mistake that they make, no matter how minor, so we can fire them, or they’ll get tired of it and quit.” Been there, done that, got several T-shirts. My advice: Don’t bother with the lawyer, don’t sign the damn thing! What’s the worse they could do? Fire you? It sounds like you’re being pointed towards the door anyways, so why make it easy on the bastards?
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=68036
FWIW, I was in a not dissimilar situation a few months back. Got lots of helpful advice here on the board.
Good Luck,
Phouchg
- If you are gay, a woman, black or a member of any other minority keep your eyes open. You may be being discriminated against.
I would like to disagree with this one… although discrimination, on average, happens more to minorities and women, it is a very real thing for white males as well.
Case in point, a while back, I scored an internship with the Mayor’s Office at City Hall in Chicago. It was myself, and three females who happened to be African American. Our boss was an African American woman. I scored the internship based on the fact that I was ranked number 1 in my high school class. These girls got the position because they were friends, and one of their mothers was a secretary in the same office. Anyways, about half way through the summer, I was let go because “there was no more work for a summer intern in the office”. So I got my stuff and left. A couple weeks later, I called one of my supervisors there, and he informed me that the three girls were still employed, and that our boss had been overheard telling people that she wasn’t going to have a white male getting paid when it could be someone else.
So even if you arent minority, or female, watch out… the world is full of racists, sexists, and people out for the betterment of their own agenda, regardless of who that stomps.
Markxxx writes:
All those who say minorities aren’t asking for special privileges please read the above twenty times.
A white male who is fired is out of luck. A member of a selected minority who is fired under identical circumstances gets to sue. Hmmmmm…
Regards,
Shodan
Yes, because homosexuals, women, blacks and other minorities are never let go because of incompetence.
We have forums available for discussing “what should be.” This ain’t it. Markxxx was simply making a factual statement that some remedies may be available to some people. If that is factually incorrect, please debunk it here. If it is correct but “wrong,” please take it to GD.
Thank you.
Superfly, the prior observation about the quit/discharged dichotomy and eligibility for unemployment benefits applies in Michigan. Generally (there are exceptions, as always, but they are extreme), you are eligible for unemployment benefits if you are involuntarily unemployed, and if you quit, you are regarded as voluntarily unemployed. So, submitting a resignation will make you ineligible for benefits through the usual route.
Employers routinely seek to obtain resignations both to lower their unemployment assessments and to mitigate against possible litigation based on discrimination or wrongful discharge assertions. That your employer has asked you to resign does not mean that it has something to hide, and probably is just CYA per its own counsel’s advice, but why sign away your rights for $750?
This is a difficult time for you. Most people who go through something like this end up saying that it turned out for the better. I hope that is the case for you. Good luck.