I’d send him a certified letter politely laying out what you laid out, making sure the letter reflects that he’s on notice for needing to do the repair asap. You might call code enforcement now because they can take a while. By the time code enforcement gets there, he’ll either have the work done, or code enforcement will be ready to give the landlord a citation immediately. Get the ball rolling now. If the landlord complies before code enforcement comes out, then just cancel the code enforcement appointment. Get copies of all the code enforcement paperwork. This will help you prove retaliation if it comes to that.
If that’s the case, Maggie, maybe just a call to him saying, “HI there, since we know the space heaters were just temporary and a fire hazard, can you let me know when the repairman is going to come by for the new heat, so I know I’ll be home?”… or something like that?
Then, if he balks, then send the letter, with the date and time of the call…
You don’t need to quote the entire code. If you want to make it more polite, yet letting him know you are serious, you might simplify all that code language and say something like this:
The more slack you give the landlord, the more slack he will take, while you go without, even though you paid your rent, which includes the value of a working heater.
And that is HIS OWN DAMN FAULT. The landlord was informed A YEAR AGO that the central heat needed to be replaced. That he dorked around is HIS OWN DAMN FAULT.
The tenants REFUSED THE SPACE HEATERS. They DID NOT ACCEPT HIS OFFER of space heaters.
Code violations are not “just technical” issues. It is illegal to refuse to maintain your rental property to code. Code ordinances are established to ensure tenant safety.
Electrical space heaters DO NOT MEET CODE as a primary heat source. It is the landlord’s legal obligation to meet code. It really doesn’t matter even if the tenants agreed to use the space heaters, he still is LEGALLY OBLIGATED to fix the central heat.
The landlord has completely failed to meet his legal obligation to his tenants. THE ENTIRE SITUATION IS HIS OWN DAMNED FAULT.
What part of this are you not getting?
California Building Codes for Room Heaters
[quote]
Unless specifically permitted, unvented room heaters cannot be installed as a primary heat source.
…
If a room heater is on a floor and the floor is combustible, the floor must be protected “in an approved manner,” which means that the room heater must sit on legs at least 4 inches off the ground, and the floor must be covered with an insulating material. This is in accordance with the regulations of the National Fire Protection Association.
[quote]
To clarify: “specially permitted” means actually getting a special permit from the appropriate agency. So if the landlord was planning to go down and pull a permit to build appropriate platforms and install unvented space heaters as primary heat source, then I take it back. He would be meeting code. And monkeys would be flying outta my butt.
Because they had their own. Did you not read the post where OP said they have not told landlord that the space heaters are unacceptable?
Please see the post about being wrong and a dick at the same time. Unvented room heaters are not the same as space heaters.
Agreed. We set rental rates by looking at comparable rentals in the area, usually between tenants if they’re good tenants.
Are you recommending this or complaining about it? I’d certainly expect an offset in rent to cover my increased electrical bills if my landlord refused to maintain the heating system properly.
Hey, Mamma Zappa, in your apartment with space heaters - was your electric covered or were you expected to pay the extra for using those?
Really? Please expound, oh wise one.
The electric for the space heaters was provided by the landlord. I don’t recall the specifics (this was 20+ years ago) but I think there was actually a heavy-duty cord run into the apartment.
We did pay the bill for the rest of our usage (i.e. lights and fridge).
And that was something I meant to ask the OP but forgot: do you pay your own electricity? If the central heat was working, would you pay for that as part of your electric or gas bill? If it was included in the rent but electric isn’t, then the landlord has yet another disincentive to do the right thing - he’d be dumping 20-30 or more extra dollars onto your electric bill and saving on his own.
No, we pay both gas and electric. Gas is, of course, considerably cheaper. (He pays for the hot water, too, so the only gas bills we have are for what we use cooking and heating.)
I have tried to reach the landlord by phone today, by the way - calling every half-hour since 11:15 (4 calls at this point). I wouldn’t call this often normally, but he doesn’t have voicemail, caller ID, or email; so pretty much the only way to get ahold of him is to call until he is available to answer and speak to him directly, or run into him at the property. (That’s another reason I went straight to a letter - he’s devilishly hard to reach.)
You still haven’t read the post about being wrong and a dick at the same time.
Anyways, unvented heaters are propane burning heaters that, as the name implies, aren’t vented to the outdoors. They work by completely burning the propane, and thus producing only water and CO2. At least, that’s theoretically how they are supposed to work. Obviously, there are a lot of ifs that go into that, and it’s pretty easy to run into problems. If you do, you start putting off CO and other stuff which has a negative effect on people sleeping in the same space. These are really only safe in places where people won’t be for a long time, and aren’t well sealed, like garages or workshops.
Space heaters, on the other hand, heat using electricity and are safe for indoor use.
I’m not complaining about the reasonableness of OP’s demands. My problem is with the timing. Basically, by making it seem like she was ok with the situation, and then waiting until mid November to tell landlord she wasn’t, she limited the options of the landlord for no good reason.
I thought space heaters could be gas or electric.
But how did propane heat get into this? Maybe I’ve not been paying attention.
I suppose semantically a propane burner counts as a space heater. But when people say space heater, they invariably mean the electric kind. For example, if you search for space heater at walmart.com, there aren’t any combustible
The phrase unvented room heater clearly is referring to combustible heating. If you look at the code cited in his link, it’s clearly talking about combustible heating. There are calculations for outdoor air flow, venting, breathing air, which have nothing to do with electric heating.
Curious about something: If a tenant moves out and the apartment is prepared for re-rental, is the landlord obligated to have it re-certified as up-to-code before moving another tenant in?
The answer probably depends on the location of the apartment, so let’s specify Los Angeles, CA.
I didn’t see anything wrong with the version of the letter in the OP, which is not rude or threatening but reminds the landlord of his obligations under law. There was a previous verbal query by the OP’s husband in November which was met with the same nonsense about space heaters, which are not going to cut it under law if just for the reason that they pose a fire hazard (one does not have to be an attorney dealing with rental law to realize this).
A polite call to the landlord before sending the letter is fine. If the outcome of that call is not satisfactory, I’d add a cc in the letter to whatever tenants’ rights group has the most pull in the area, in addition to a cc to attorney(s).
This guy thinks he has tenants who are dumb/pliable enough to pay through the nose for electricity so that he doesn’t have to make a needed repair. He is dumb/broke enough so that he’d risk the unit/building burning down due to an accident with space heaters (the risk would make a normal person’s hair stand on end). If he’s that broke, he’s probably going to respond to a major plumbing leak with an offer to buy you buckets. Best to find out now.
New oil filled space heaters aren’t really a fire hazard. They don’t get hot enough to ignite anything, and they typically come with tip over cut off switches.
In the city of Los Angeles, there are inspectors that look at every multi-unit rented housing facility to confirm habitability at least every 5 years, or when a violation is reported. Cite. That’s the only city that I know of that does this.
Thank you. How long have you lived in your current apartment? Or do you have any idea when your unit is up for a re-inspect?
Space heaters should not be used as a substitute for central heating, none are intended for use without adults present, and numerous models (including oil-filled ones) have been recalled due to product defects.
Again, what sort of landlord would view using space heaters in an apartment as a long-term substitute for a proper central heating unit? Dumb, broke, heedless of his tenants’ comfort and safety, or all three.
Okay. I just got off the phone with the landlord. I’m writing it down here to keep it fresh in my mind.
He basically offered the following options:
- He would pay for “a couple hundred dollars” worth of space heaters.
- I could use the oven to heat the apartment (!!!)
- He could replace the central heating/AC fixture, but then my rent would go up to reflect his costs, amortized over a 5 year period.
3a) He could replace the heating/AC fixture with only a heating, meaning the apartment would no longer have AC. My rent would still go up, but by less because the units are cheaper if there’s no AC. - He would replace the central heating with … he described it but I didn’t quite understand - some sort of window unit? This would be the cheapest permanent solution for me in terms of raising the rent.
Note: It is not legal for him to raise the rent in response to my complaint.
He also said that the space heaters wouldn’t raise my electric bill much because the central heating also uses electricity to blow the hot air through the house. Riiiight.
I affirmed to him that we don’t want to move, that we plan to live there for at least another 5 years. He seemed relieved by that. He reminded me that even though the lease expired in July, he hadn’t raised our rent and didn’t really intend to for a long time.
So. There we are. What the hell should we do?