Landlord warning of tenant liability

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

My wife and I live in a three story house in the UK (South England). It is multi-tenant where dwellings are whatever they could make of “flats” or rooms. So not a co-op and we’re here mainly because for us now, it’s a month to month lease in a village close enough to shopping and things.

The landlord sent out an email to everyone. I’ll not quote but a few pertinent lines:

As you are probably aware we had an unwelcome visitor early this week. A homeless man entered the property and set up camp in the hallway. He was able to do so as the property was left unlocked and easily accessible to him.

It was -6° C that night. So can’t say I blame him. And conveniently, there was a mattress laying against the wall on the first/ground floor.

The “easily accessible” refers to the door lock having a feature, where if you slide some metal bit on the side of the the door it remains unlocked. For me to do that, I would need (ironically) a key or small screwdriver. It’s not something simple like flipping the latch one way or another to leave a door unlocked. It cannot be done accidentally and it took me a few tries to to discover how this lock operated like that.

I emailed the Landlord regarding this “feature” which is commonly utilized, back in November, just after 1AM when after a trip to the rubbish/garbage bins that the lock had this “feature”

Tenants at the property will be liable for any damages that are caused by intruders or any stolen goods if the house is left unlocked - The property insurance would not cover us for anything relevant if we have left the front door open.

Not only are we enticing homeless people we could attract thieves at the house.

So who is liable again? Who is enticing? I mostly know (the generally strict) New York City guidelines, and as I said I had emailed the Landlord in November.

DO NOT LEAVE IT ON THE LATCH - Particularly at night.

I emailed back tonight:

As to the door - I sent an email back in November. Please rethink your generosity in spreading blame or liability.

I am not a lawyer, yet this is both
Willful Negligence – Deliberately ignoring known problems or hazards.
Landlord Neglect – General term for a landlord not fulfilling their responsibilities.

I also said the “particularly at night” bit was a fine use of the word duplicity

Also, while I was at it, I noted that the hangars for fire extinguishers are all empty, and there are only 3 right by the door and said that is code violation

I reckon “lawyer” is not quite the correct term, yet I can’t bring myself to say “I am not a solicitor” or whatever the UK equivalent of a British Lionel Hutz (Simpsons) is, yet sure, go ahead and make the tenants pay and I will surely find out.

I’m not asking for legal advice or even what the proper solicitous term is or using below 0°C temps in the UK mean that global change is a fallacy or somehow Trump is now controlling the flow of the Gulf of America Stream (yet if he could, he would)

2

Don’t give him any ideas.

I hope you looked up the actual legal definitions in your jurisdiction for those terms, Willful Negligence and Landlord Neglect, not to mention code violation. If you can’t support them, they could come back to haunt you. I do wish you the best outcome for getting your residence up to code and in proper nick.

3

So what is the layout of the property? Do the individual tenants have keys to their flats? And there is a common area outside all the flats that is just corridors and entranceways. Or is this a shared house situation

Also what do they mean by “liable”? Do they mean they could, if they had access to a lawyer and the motivation, take them to court to try and claim the damage back? Or do they mean they will just add the clean up cost to your monthly rent bill. As would happen (as I know from my student days) if say someone in your flat got drunk and set off the fire alarm for no reason. I realize they deliberately left this ambiguous but we should be clear what we mean.

Though there is no way either of the types of neglect you mention would apply. There is a no duty of care for the homeless outside, unfortunately.

4

So the lock on the Front door of this small apartment building, is broken, non-functioning, or easily jimmied?

That is so the Landlords problem. Homeless or thieves getting in. His problem.

He can say your liable all he wants.
Tell him go pound sand.

And…if he fixes all that stuff, expect rent increase with the lease you have.

5

I reckon even how the GSOA works is unknown, beyond the Earth spins, Coriolis effect. Sometimes Earth does just does remarkable and unpredictable things.

Unrelated: Apparently parts of Australia are going to have landfall of a hurricane. The reporter kept calling it a “Cyclone” and I could not resist saying “Anti-Cyclone” as (being well south of the equator) it spins clockwise. It’s a fallacy that toilet bowls flush that way too, yet it was a good gag in “The Simpsons go to Australia” that their toilet bowl has a mechanism to make it flow counter-clockwise, or “The American Way” provoking Homer to start singing the “Star Spangled Banner”.

I wasn’t threatening them with lawyer-type-talking-guys, and also I know that if they tried to charge tenants for issues I’ve warned them about, this is a “slam dunk” as per tenant liability. Even had I not noted this to them before.

Up to folks who wear wigs, yet I would summarise closing arguments as “Not our fault - theirs. So the only proper outcome is the tenants shall pay.”

Well, as every New Yorker is issued a set of lock-pick tools in shop class and taught how to use them (JK!)

It is reasonably locked when it’s locked so you cannot push it in like when this mechanism is employed to allow it to be pushed in. If they want to pay me to run down at Sunset/midnight to really lock the door, sure. It is certainly duplicitous to say “Leaving door open bad. Yet if leave door open, locking good at night”

I’ve only met him once - and this was after a run when the door was literally open - and he challenged me, sweating and looking American, who I was. He is dark-skinned, so is not from around here (meaning Europe) so I’m not sure if “Go pound sand” is a phrase one can say everywhere.

6

But there is an important difference between these cases. One can be safely ignored until you get a letter from the landlord’s lawyer. One cannot.

7

You mention having a month-to-month lease. Are you worried the landlord will peg you as a troublemaker and will tell you he doesn’t want to rent to you any more?

I have no idea how UK law works in these matters. If you can accomplish something worthwhile by challenging the landlord, without harming your own living circumstances, for sure go for it!

Was the mattress there because of the landlord, or one of the tenants?

8

I chatted with my neighbour who was out for a smoke (No smoking! Several fire extinguishers!) and he was not too concerned about things. It’s a generally safe kind of town, though there was a spate of plate glass windows being smashed and swastika’s being spray-painted (back around October), yet all in good fun I am sure.

I reckon “duplicity” is the only word I’ve said they would have to trouble themselves to look up some kind of book that defines what words mean. Or google it.

Is “troublemaker” a legal reason for eviction? I am not leaving the door in an unlocked state. I did not lay out a mattress on the ground floor any more than I caused freezing temperatures. I’d like to think the British would note things like this, yet if they’re too worried about repercussions, they can go pound sand. I’m a New Yorker with dual Irish/USA citizenship. I take exactly zero shit/shite.

That’s only, I reckon, if someone leaves the door open (or in this not-locked state) and Land Sharks come knocking.

9

IANAL, much less a UK solicitor. But if your lease is month to month, there is no need to evict. Just, when your current month is up, the landlord could say, “sorry, I don’t want to rent this unit anymore.” Or they could raise the rent to the max allowed by law (assuming there is a ceiling).

Month-to-month is a double edged sword - it gives the tenant more freedom to leave any time without penalty, but it also gives the landlord the ability to withdraw from renting to a particular tenant without penalty. (Again, IANAL so I suppose I could be wrong. But if a landlord can’t get a month-to-month tenant out, then wouldn’t every tenant want to be month-to-month? The whole point of a lease is that it gives you protection from disruption for a specified period of time.)

10

Indeed and acknowledged. Is “my wife will kill me if I caused our eviction” worth anything?

All I said was: This is not tenant liability and I told you so.

I still l want to know about “enticement”. Is it well known that this place has open doors or do freezing-cold-homeless go pushing in doors all around on the chance they are open and using mattresses conveniently left out to have a warm night. In NYC -6° will usually have the NYPD telling any outdoor (Dunno if it’s American or British, but “rugged living”) homeless there are shelters.

I’ve got the high ground, legally, here. I don’t think they’d even have to replace the lock itself. Just do not blame or threaten the tenants.

11

I meant safe in the sense of there will be no financial/legal repercussions.

If your landlord says you are liable, meaning he can if he wants (and is able) take you to court over it, and claim the money back. Then ignore that until he sends a letter from his lawyers.

If your landlord sends you a bill for the damage that can’t be ignored (though iANAL and the safety of ignoring it will vary by jurisdiction). Ignoring it could be grounds for late fees and eviction.

Again, he obviously wants there to be ambiguity between these two situations, but presumably there is a distinction in law between them (though that will vary by jurisdiction)

12

It wouldn’t be just me asked to pay, it’d be some surcharge that I would (as an advocate/troublemaker) take them to court over. In this case, the guy just sheltered on an unexpected cold night. No damage. Had I seen him I’d had asked if he wanted some hot soup. Then, of course, I’d be responsible if anything at all happened. Even though I’m from New York I have some compassion.

In short: I am not worried (outside of my wife killing me - jk). I’ll post any highlights of a reply email yet they too are treading on legal grounds here. May they pound sand.

13

Ok.
Your Landlord can say anything he wants. Don’t make it true.

I’m confused, are you in NYC or the UK?
Or Australia?
Is this Landlord able to turn off your heat or water.
Be careful how you approach him. If he’s a bit unhinged I wouldn’t engage.

Don’t threaten lawsuits or turning him in. I ain’t saying don’t do it, I’m saying keep your mouth shut.

And, I felt offended by your remark about Americans. :neutral_face:

14

Thats not the case in all jurisdictions. In San Francisco my apartment was month-to-month but the landlord would have still needed to show cause to evict me (which he would have very much liked to do, as it was also rent controlled)

15

Good advice. I will someday want a good reference yet I reckon I was cordial enough to not blackmark me as a troublemaker. I wasn’t even arguing balls and strikes at the plate (that’s a tossing)

I am a New Yorker in England (so just the opposite of Sting’s song and I am not an alien in any manner.)

I have lived in Australia where big things like storms swirl clockwise. Storms that swirl “anti-clockwise” or very commonly “comma-shaped” are often called Nor’Easters or given cute names by the British: “Storm Donald”. “Anti-cyclone” as I understood it while living in Melbourne, Australia, is their name for Hurricanes/Typhoons yet they swirl clockwise because of the Coriolis Effect. I am absolutely positive the many kinds of Aboriginals had a name for such storms, and they’d not have any “anti-” to prefix with, yet as I understand it the term was “Anti-cyclone”. Maybe now it’s the much easier to say sub equatorial typhoon.

That is definitely criminal everywhere I’ve lived. I have not yet lived in a Donald Trump establishment.

I’ve not threatened anything, other than to tell them that they ought not be threatening blame on the tenants and that at least one tenant told them about this 4 months ago and is not cowed by “tenants will pay” language.

Not sure what you mean? I remain a blue-passport holding, voting New Yorker. I wasn’t (narrator: yes he was) trying to make political hay out of the Gulf of America and its renamed Stream, and generally I’m not the ‘go to’ guy for nice things to say about the NYPD yet they do indeed try and help out the homeless.

A very nice city, incredibly liberal and I mean that in a very good way.

16

Could have been born in Europe; as could his parents, or for that matter additional generations. It is not a brand new thing for dark-skinned people to be in Europe.

17

I’m pretty sure the landlord can’t hold all the tenants liable if the door is left unlocked. He could perhaps hold the specific individual who left the door unlocked liable, but not every tenant in the building. But even in that case, he’d have to be able to prove the specific tenant left it unlocked. He’d have to have something like video evidence, testimony from a witness, etc. that pointed to a specific tenant.

18

Now I need to know if “Go pound sand” could be considered a racial or country epithet or how widely it would be understood as equivalent to “GFY”.

That’s what happens when you Find a Stranger in the Alps!

You are now officially my law-type-speaking-guy.

19

I wouldn’t say go pound sand is racist.
I certainly didn’t mean it that way.

If it is, I will never utter it again.

20

I don’t recall saying it or having it said to me.
I was me being quasi-racist assuming that any reference to sand from sandy nations, like our friends in the Sahara Desert, might be considered offensive.

I consulted with chatGPT:

“Go pound sand” is an American idiom that means “go away,” “get lost,” or “waste your time on something useless.” It’s a dismissive or mildly insulting way to tell someone off.

You are good to go, Beck. And I know anyone outside the USA will be utterly confounded by this idiom and perhaps consider it a compliment.