Large breed dog help, please (health related)

In My Humble Opinion
1

How do I even start?

OK, we have a 154 lb Newfoundland who is 6 1/2 years old. Like many of his breed, he suffers from hip dysplasia, with the right hip completely away from it’s socket and the left one coming out too. Also, his right knee is bad but not too bad. This is all based on his last x-rays from 2 years ago. But he still gets around fine and has no acute problems.

That is, until last night. Sometime in the middle of the night, he blew out the anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee. Shredded it. Which means that now he is putting his full weight on his left knee, which in this breed is structurally iffy at best, and he is using it incorrectly because of the overcompensation.

So, here is the doc’s story- the left knee will go too, it’s only a matter of when. At that point, the dog will be completely lame and unable to walk. In a smaller, younger dog, he would then replace both hip and knee on the right, rehab him, then do the other side.

But for Angus, he looked my husband dead in the eye and told him that as a doctor he doesn’t even have a recommendation on what we should do. He gave us a big painkiller to make him comfortable and we brought him home.

I am feeling a little shredded too. Does anyone have any experience with big dogs and ACLs? Any advice? A long time ago, when my SIL’s Newfie underwent 4 hip surgeries, we swore we wouldn’t put Angus through it, ever. It’s not about the money, it’s about the quality of his life. FWIW, Newfs are a particularly stoic bredd, which is why problems often go undiagnosed until very late in the game.

I actually had him at the vet only yesterday, for an ear infection! The vet even commented how we had extended his life by keeping his weight down…
:frowning:

Please give me whatever advice or experience you have, thanks.

2

Oh, I’m sorry you’re facing such a hard decision. I had a 100 pound saint bernard cross. I had to have repairs done to both of his ACLs, but he was only a couple years old at the time and didn’t have any hip problems, so the vet gave him a good prognosis. Even with that, at the end of his too short life, he couldn’t get into the truck by himself at all. He was pretty miserable.

(my current dog is an Angus too - makes it arder to hear about yours having problems.)

3

Well, 6 1/2 is just middle-aged for most dogs, but as I’m sure you know, it’s getting on up there for a supersized breed like a Newfie. One thing you have to think about is whether or not you want to spend $6K on a dog that’s approaching elderly, and whether you want to put him through the months of recovery it would entail. Recovery from a total hip is nothing to sneeze at, you know, for either of you. These animals have to have support at all times for several weeks, and sling-walking a 150 pound dog isn’t for the faint of heart or weak of back. (Trust me, there’s a reason vet techs all have herniated disks and other back problems.) Taking Angus out to pee is going to be a two-or-three-person job, a minimum of three times a day. If his bladder is very full, the pressure of the sling may make him urinate all over the place before you take the first step, and a dog that big has one heck of a big bladder. He’ll have to be crated most of the time, with at least three inches of padding under him at all times to keep him from getting pressure sores. (More weight=more risk for bedsores=more need for padding)

Your vet’s between a rock and a hard place, here. If it were just the ACL, it really wouldn’t be such a big deal. Most dogs are able to support a little of their weight on a repaired cruciate within a day or two, and they regain full use within a few weeks. Recovery from the second ACL is usually even quicker, since the dog has a truly good knee to put the weight on and is somewhat used to the whole mess. If it were the hips and knees on a smaller dog, it wouldn’t be such a big deal to do the THR. In that sort of case, making a recommendation would be pretty easy. But this case, it’s a hard one. He can’t tell you to just go on and do the knees knowing full well that the hips are going to go (based on your description, those hips are almost certain to go eventually.) To do so wouldn’t be doing right by you or by Angus. He can’t tell you to spend several grand, put the dog through months of recovery, take on the sizable burden of post-op care of a dog that probably outweighs you, and risk hurting yourself moving Angus around. That’s way beyond the limits of what an ethical vet can tell you that you should or shouldn’t be willing to take on. He also can’t tell you not to do the surgeries, because we’re not talking about prolonging an animal’s suffering.

This one is all up to you. If the money and work and the time he’ll spend recovering are worth it to you for him to have a few years of good mobility, then go for it. If it’s more work or money than you can handle, or if you think it would be more than you want to put him through, that’s perfectly reasonable. Even if I could afford to spend that kind of money on my girls, I don’t think I could commit myself to the aftercare of a dog that big. It would just be more than I could do right now.

This probably isn’t much help, but if there’s anything else you want to know about post-op care for the sorts of surgery you’re looking at on Angus, please feel free to ask.

4

Great Dane owner here.

My dog blew out his CCL in his right knee last year at the age of 2-1/2. We did a procedure called a TPLO (tibial plateau leveling osteotomy). Search the terms on google and you’ll find great info about the procedure. It works very well, but is expensive ($2200 per knee). Your question obviously is more complicated, given the hip problem and the age.

The procedure is the one you want done on the knee, though, if you decide to do it. Try your local university animal clinic for someone who is an orthopedic specialist, and is trained in the procedure.

I also know a Newfie who’s had the procedure on both knees, and he gets around like a champ now.

Good luck.

5

Mastiff owner here:one five and a half year old, one 10 year old who is arthritic but can still do stairs and even get around the block twice a day.
I feel very fortunate in that we have never dealt with the problems you face.
You have already received good advice. Given your Newfie’s age and special situation, I’d think long and hard about surgery and the ensuing recovery, but if you think you and your canine friend are up for it, more power to you.

6

A 10 year old Mastiff? What a blessing!

Angus’ vet called tonight to check on him, and talk to us more about his situation. We are going to wait and see how he deals with the pain meds over the next couple of days (he was laready putting weight back on the leg before he got the pills, eek).

If we can’t make him confortable, or he gets worse, or when the left knee blows out, it will be over. We love him too much to see him in pain like that, regardless of the available technology. He is just a little too old for it, I’m afraid. But we will see a surgeon before we make a final decision.

7

How possible is it to get one of the dog wheelchair things to carry the weight in the back? It still doesn’t help that front knee, but it would give him extra mobility. I don’t know if you can brace/wrap the left knee for extra support to prolong blowing out that other ACL, but you might check on that.

My sympathies and best wishes for you and Angus. I have a 110 doberman who’s at least 12-14 (I adobted him as an adult) and I"m dealing with pain issues in his hips right now. We’re trying rimadyl for the pain and my new house has a ramp into the back door, so hopefully he will be more comfortable.

StG

8

Rimadyl is awesome, but you have to watch liver functions very carefully.

A cart is pretty much out of the question, as he is so damn big. He is light at 154!

No, we are pretty much looking at pain management until the next bad thing happens. The thing about Newfs is, they are very stoic and adjust to pain pretty well. He is already walking around on the non-knee, and seems to be handling the new pain meds ($2.80 per pill, 1 1/2 per day…) pretty well.

9

We’ve had good luck with Rimadyl, but watch out for Deramaxx. It was poisoning our older mastiff’s digestive system, we took him off it.
We actually don’t have our guy on anything now, he’s sort of worked it out how to get around, and yes, he’s very stoic.