That’s what I thought until some 30 years ago when 60 Minutes broadcast a Southern Baptist exorcism done in Latin. "“Exi ergo, transgressor. Exi, seductor, plene omni dolo et fallacia,” etc. Old Scratch had a terrible time in Latin class, so it’s still the go-to language to piss him off. I don’t make this shit up. I have mass media to do it for me.
That was an amusing article, had to double check to see it wasn’t an Onion piece. Surprised at parts of it. Such as learning Pope Francis was caught on film doing an exorcism. Have other recent popes being doing that?
From your link, it said that in accordance with the 1999 update, a priest cannot perform an exorcism until the possessed person has consulted a psychiatric health professional to rule out the possibility of mental illness. So nothing mentally wrong, eh, just a bout of the devil, ain’t that good to know. Seems psychosomatic to me. I guess it may some serve a purpose for a church to carry out such an affair to appease the person if he or she truly thinks he is possessed by the devil. Perhaps if they would quit giving reverence to such nonsense though, they wouldn’t have these fits.
It appears the exorcism gives the afflicted some kind of a placebo to cure the nocebo, both of which they probably had a hand in though through their teachings and like-minded people sharing similar beliefs; and had the person not believed in such things to begin with, doubt would have needed this kind of attention. But who knows, people that are this susceptible are liable to get themselves into other situations.
Gotta hand it to ya, though, Latin does seem bad ass to do one of these exorcisms. I wonder if a Pentecostal speaking in tongues could give 'em a run for the money though, and maybe give equal results.
According to Gary Gygax, Latin is the Lawful something alignment secret language. 
I’m pretty sure Chaotic something is what you talk when completely smashed.
If Latin was good enough for Jesus it’s good enough for us.
What are you talking about, Icerigger? Everyone knows Jesus spoke Elizabethan English.
Yes, people attend different parishes based on what they prioritize. There could be any number of reasons.
It’s not the Latin. It’s the whole atmosphere of worship. In TLM, the Priest is rarely talking to or facing us, but God. He is not cracking jokes or singing happy birthday to parishioners. He’s not giving communion to parishioners living in public adultery. There are many families with lots of children unlike our local parish where my wife and I are freaks for adhering to Catholic teaching and constantly get asked about our sex life (so are you done having children?).
Seen some youtube clips, doesn’t appear to me Pope Francis is actually doing an exorcism here, but the guy in the wheelchair seemed to be playing his part like it was. The man still says he is possessed.
Maybe it’s just you or the two congregations you know. I’m not old enough to remember when every Mass was a Latin Mass- but I am old enough to remember the old ladies saying the Rosary instead of paying attention and participating in the English Mass. Presumably, that was a habit they carried over from when Mass was in Latin and they couldn’t follow what the priest was saying, at least not during the readings. I’m not exactly sure what you mean by “public adultery” , but I imagine it involves a presumption of some sort on your part that a necessary annulment was not obtained. I’ve known many people who were done having their one or two children before 1965 and I’ve never seen a priest singing " Happy birthday" at Mass.
Or maybe you referred to 'theological ignorance" and "reverence" when you really meant something else.
Yeah, the definition of adultery has been stretched over the millenia.
I’ve been told that people stop being able to hear high frequencies when we get older, so maybe someone can explain why the dogs are barking and I’m feeling insulted. I sometimes need threads like this to remind me why I fell away from the Mother Church.
No, of course things were not all sunshine and roses before V2.
As for public adultery, I guess fornication would have been more appropriate. The two specific examples from my experience are a man living in a publicly homosexual “marriage” (maybe they are celibate :rolleyes:), and a young unmarried cohabitating couple who are obviously not celibate as they had a child together. This woman was also incidentally a CCD teacher for one of my children. These things might be tolerable if it were just me, but I want better for my children.
This priest definitely sings happy birthday at mass.
Maybe I’m just slow, but I don’t know what you’re trying to imply by your last sentence, so I’ll just leave it be.
Having left Protestantism for the Catholic Church, I just want better than Protestantism + the Eucharist. If I could find that in the NO then great; but at least near me TLM seems to be the only option.
…So, the parishes where people are being denied communion for adultery are not the ones where everyone’s paying attention to each others’ sex lives?
But EscAlaMike, if everyone started doing mass in Latin, wouldn’t the guy who sings “happy birthday” keep doing it, just tuck it in between Latin prayers? I think you are enjoying the Latin Mass near you specifically because it’s an unusual collection of people looking for a more traditional experience, and they express that in language as well as in other ways.
(And “happy birthday”? Really? I enjoy attending other people’s religious services, and I’ve been to lots of services in lots of denominations, and I’ve never come across anyone singing “happy birthday” during services.)
The only thing I meant was that maybe you meant something more like “traditional” or “conservative” when you referred to “reverence” and “theological ignorance”. Because it’s not “theological ignorance” for a priest not to make assumptions about people’s sex lives. or whether they are married or not. When my kids were in Catholic school, I could not have told you which of their classmates’ parents were married in accordance with the rules of the Catholic church. For the most part, the priests wouldn’t have known either- it’s not as though I had to present my marriage certificate to register the kids for school. People made all sorts of assumptions- most of which were wrong. They assumed my husband and I were not married because we didn’t have the same last name. When my husband registered for RCIA , it was a big deal because the priests and everyone else had assumed he was Catholic for the 4 years our kids had attended the school.
Assumptions can be wrong- maybe that homosexual couple is celibate. And maybe the couple with the baby got married last month and didn’t feel the need to inform you.
When I usher I practically drag the newbies (especially those who came for a niece’s Baptism–I know uncomfortable Catholics when I see them) up for the Eucharist. We don’t get into discussions of Trans vs Cons vs True Presence–I’m an agnostic Memorialist but avoid the topic–and a blessing is good, wherever you find it.
Shit oh dear, Pope Frankie has been dancing on a blanket “we’re co-communicants” since taking over, held back by stick in the muds who can’t accept that things are different than in 1955. My parish is growing from the young end. Is yours, EscAlaMike?
Speaking of ignorance…
That couple are married or not depending on which definition you use.
Married naturally: yes.
Married according to your local government: no.
Married theologically: you don’t know. Requirements for a marriage to be theologically valid do not include a wedding. They’re about commitment, not about paperwork.
Married according to Canon law: yes. In fact, before Trent’s recommendation that all weddings include a priest (i.e., a person who was sure to be able to read and write and who had access to a stable building where records could be kept) as a witness, and that said witness keep written records, “shacking up” was the usual method. Note that a wedding witnessed by a priest is a recommendation, not a requirement. Before Trent, the immense majority of non-royal marriage cases coming in front of the Rota involved a woman suing a husband who had decided to do something that as a married man he could not do (join a convent or marry another woman were the most frequent ones): having a document eliminates the possibility of such cases, as the piece of paper is proof of marriage.
Must have been the solemn prayer “felicem diem natalem”, followed by a variant of “gaudeamus igitur” and “omnia dicta fortiora si dicta latina”
The Catholic view of marriage is very very strange, they really never know if their marriage is valid or not, a marriage tribunal would have to decide.
This would fly in direct contradiction to my experience where the few people who sought out a mass in Latin would be a mixture of sedevacantists, people who grew up being told (pre-Vatican II) that the church was perpetually unchanging (being unaware of even the changes that occurred between Trent and Vatican II) who were frightened by the changes, and some who were angry that they could now eat meat on Friday without going to hell. I have only met two people who were strong proponents of the Latin mass who could even discuss theology without falling back on the Baltimore Catechism Volume I.
As for your comments regarding reverence, I reject them. What you are describing is not reverence, (i.e. demonstrating respect), but a specific form of comportment. There is nothing wrong with avoiding the familiar when in church; it is one form of reverence. However, it is a specific form that is hardly the only form. What is irreverent, (i.e. failing to show respect), to celebrating a birthday?
This may very well be true.