I can picture that easily enough - there’s the steady background hum of the train itself and if the walls are solid and right-angled for high echoing… heck, I was in a non-train restaurant (non-train restaurants are the latest thing - check them out!) that had bare walls and the acoustics were terrible - people having normal conversations were annoyingly audible way across the room. Wall decorations that can reflect the sound at various angles (hopefully toward a sound-absorbent ceiling) could make a huge difference, but that doesn’t really lend itself to trains. Maybe they could put a thin layer of absorbent material on the walls, but that’d make the space even tighter than it already is.
But if a bar gets too loud for you, you can leave. That’s a meaningful difference.
As soon as I read this story, it reminded me of a two hour bus trip I took to the city last year. On the bus, amongst many persons of various colours, were four young black women from the U.S. (American accents, came from Detroit, easily determined by their conversation!) As everyone was boarding these women were being loud and clearly having a good time. No worries.
But once out of the station, and onto the highway, as the rest of the bus settled down, these four women never toned down their voices. They were sitting almost on top of each other and were practically shouting. They seemed overly loud like teenagers seeking attention often are. Everyone on the bus had to listen to every word.
Now Canadians being mostly overly polite, and not wanting to offend, just ignored them, hoping they’d pick up on the social clues that clearly people were uncomfortable. No no, they did not. After an hour of this people were getting pretty pissed. You couldn’t hear your music device, or read a book, or sleep, they were that loud.
I think most of the people, almost two hours in, had decided to just bear it, and probably complain to their friends after. But then, another woman of colour, stood up and said, “All these white folk are too polite to say anything so I’m going to tell you to STFU!” And she just went off on them while the bus sat in stunned silence.
It looked like it would just be the one out burst but then the four women started to scream back. At which point the bus driver stopped the bus, came back and told the objector to bring their complaints to him and let him handle it. Then he told the four loud women to knock it off.
When they pleaded, “Well, no one said anything, did they?”, he announced that no one should have to! You’re on a bus not in a stadium or at a rock concert!
If the woman who shouted at them hadn’t sworn so much, I’m pretty sure she would have got a round of applause! As it was, most every passenger thanked her as they got off the bus.
I thought of this as soon as I read the story. No the police shouldn’t be involved, clearly. But some people just flat out don’t know how to behave. These people were asked three times to lower their voices.
If you’re going to, or wanting to, be loud and raucous then choose an appropriate venue for your noisy selves. You don’t have a RIGHT to ruin everyone else’s experience, I think.
Yeah, my thoughts on this story were that I’ve been in several situations where a group was really boisterous, out of proportion to the ambience and without much regard for other patrons, and it’s annoying as hell. A sports bar, fine. A quiet restaurant or bar? Ten people making whoopie is a distraction and an annoyance.
Which dovetails with another observation: six or more of almost any single gender and age range results in a much rowdier group than one with any mix. And nothing gets louder than about ten fortyish women out for a good time.
Race has nothing to do with it. While the train proprietors may have overreacted, it was on the group to tone things down when asked, or move to some other part of the train (if there was such a place - never been on it).
Is it too difficult to imagine that after being kicked off the bus and the cops called that these ladies stopped being so loud?
The Wine Train people paid for a bus to take these women back to the station. Companies don’t do these sorts of things when other patrons aren’t being disturbed.
That apology from the Wine Train pointed out that, with some advance reservations, it is possible for a group to reserve an entire car to themselves, and that this is done commonly, and they suggested that for this Book Club on their next (free) trip. (I thought it was far from clear if this group was anywhere near large enough to occupy a whole car to themselves.)
I can believe they were a bit loud. Any group of 10+ friends will tend to be louder than everyone else. And the acoustics of a train car amplify “normal” loudness. If they had been in a typical restaurant, it is likely they would have been fine But trains are different.
But I don’t believe the accusations of plate throwing and all that craziness. In this day and age of ubiquitous cameras, seems like that would have captured and put on youtube by now.
When I’ve been in a situation where a clique becomes boisterous, I do the “I’ll have whatever they’re having” thing and join in. Glad I wasn’t on the wine train, or the press would be speculating about the old white guy who was also detrained.
What’s lacking here, is any insight into how the folks in charge tried to de-escalate the situation before throwing the women off the train. Without knowing that, I don’t see how you can say they were being too loud. If a bunch of people complained, and the first act was to throw them off the train, then that’s just stupid.
But I’m still sticking with me original thoughts here. It’s called a “Wine Train”, not a “Fine Dining Train”, and anyone getting on it who doesn’t realize it’s a bar on wheels is being naive. You shouldn’t expect it to be much different from any of the tasting rooms you’ll be visiting. Why would you? It’s all the same people.
A group of eleven people became loud, and obnoxious, and treated the other passengers rudely. They were asked, twice, to calm down. They repeatedly refused. After the third incident, they were kicked off the train. Problem solved.
If these people had caused a similar problem on a commercial aircraft, the plane would have been diverted to the nearest airport, and they would have been kicked off the plane. Problem solved.
The wine train people are willing to work with the rude, and obnoxious, book club members in order to keep their business. This doesn’t mean that the wine train company won’t kick them off the train in the future, if the book club members chose to, once again, disrupt the tours of it’s other passengers.
Can you quote that part of the OP’s cite? I didn’t see where they were asked, twice, to calm down.
AP, as reported by USAToday: “After repeatedly being told to quiet down, the group was escorted through six train cars and greeted by police in the Napa Valley town of St. Helena, the AP reported.”
We had an incident of not quite unsocial but unnecessary behaviour a while ago and the solution I proposed worked perfectly. Ask them first and if they carry on, stand back and film it on your phone.
It’s amazing how people instantly recognise what they are doing is beyond social norms, and presumably that they will look absolute bellends. It worked instantly.
*The 11, members of a long-standing book club, boarded the Wine Train at about 11 a.m. on Saturday but were told to leave the train in St. Helena after a maître d’hotel complained about their behavior, saying they were being disruptive, according to Lisa Johnson, an Antioch author and member of the club.
…After several miles of “chitchatting” among the club members, Johnson said, the train’s maître d’hotel told the group, “Your noise level is a little loud, and you have to tone it down so we don’t make others uncomfortable."
“We thought the purpose of the Wine Train was to have a good time and enjoy being with a large group. No one told us of any noise ordinance. If you get a group of 11 women talking and laughing, it’s going to be loud,” Johnson said.
Later, the maître d’hotel came by a second time, warning the women they would be ordered off the train if they didn’t quiet down, Johnson said.
“She said people were complaining and I said, ‘Who’s complaining?’ And she said, ‘Well, people’s faces are uncomfortable,'” said Johnson. “At that point, one passenger nearby said, ‘Well, this is not a bar.’ We reacted, ‘Yes, it is a bar, a bar on wheels.’"*
The book club says there were 12 members -
Post #6096 from the “Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread” links to an article containing a tweet from a drinking book club member.
Lisa Renee Johnson with Angie Crow and Teri Pierce
Chief Sunshineologist at Lisa Renee Johnson
· 1,818 followers · August 22 at 12:54pm · Saint Helena, CA ·
…
Facebook Family, we have a problem!
We sipped wine, enjoyed each other’s company but our trip is being cut short…this women said our laughter annoyed her because this is “not a bar”… We are a group of 12…if we all laugh at the same time it’s loud! When we get to St. Helena they are putting us off the train.
A wine train employee had posted this but it was later removed.
OK, if that’s the case, then fine. I’d be OK with that in a bar, too. If you’re asked by the management to tone it down, and you don’t do so, then don’t be surprised when you get kicked off. The original article made it sound like they were kicked off without warning.
However… As a fellow passenger, I can’t imagine complaining because some ladies’ book club was being too loud. It is a bar on wheels.
Whether it’s a bar or a tasting lounge or a restaurant, a dozen women “getting noisy” is irritating and obnoxious. The Wine Train is not a rolling party or a bar in any conventional sense.
Insisting that your group has the right to dominate a room with its behavior is just rudeness.
John - have you been on the train? It has table seating with tablecloth. Granted, there are a few train cars and at least one of them I saw had a bar setup - stools and everything. In that train, the tables were not like the others, but more like bar/cocktail setting where people would stand around them. That car was loud and I passed through it while walking through the train.
In the assigned seating area, I was given a table, a booth actually, by the window. Waiters were in tuxedo type dress and other than the moving train, the environment was no different than what you’d expect at Ruth’s Chris with a bit more ambient noise because of the train. It would not be surprising if the group was being louder than is typical at the Wine Train, in such a way that disturbed other guests. Have you looked at their website? They talk about gourmet food, service, relaxation, elegance. Here is where you can see images of each train car. I did the Champagne Vista Dome which was pretty cool.
I guess my main contention is that it’s not a bar on wheels. This is a bar on wheels. 
See the second sentence in the 2nd post in this thread. Yes.
OK, I stand corrected. It’s not a bar on wheels. It’s a lounge on wheels. Have you never been to a lounge? It’s just a bar with nice furniture. People drinking are loud, especially in groups. It doesn’t matter if it’s a train, a bar, someone’s house, or a restaurant bar. People + Alcohol = Noise.
It might tend towards loud but it not like some law of physics or something.
If somebody tells your group you need to tone that shit down…or else…then you need to tone that shit down.
I’ve been with groups that IMO needed to tone that shit down…and I’ve often been the one that is reminding our group we need to tone that shit down…and if any official came along and told us we needed to tone that shit down I’d be thinking “thank god”.
Of course I’m a middle aged white guy so I’ve never been dealt the race card to use for such occasions.
Maybe they need a you people car on that train.
I’m not sure what exactly is being suggested - should a crowd of African-American people be allowed to be disruptive because they are African-American? Doesn’t or shouldn’t equality mean that everyone has to play by the same rules?