Both would be lazy. In this case, there is exactly one person to blame. The Gov. had total control.
Absolutely. Democrats are guilty of a lot of things, either because they’re Democrats or just lousy people, but the responsibility for the lead in Flint’s water and the snail-slow response falls squarely on the chief executive of the state.
I didn’t know each member of the EU had full control over the Euro. And other countries always borrow in local currency or do they at time receive loans in US dollars?
And why did the governor have total control? Was it the selfless and enlightened governance of the local government?
Because the GOP thought a tyrant was a good solution. Because the GOP is run by dimwits and assholes.
Sorry, I disagree with you. The powers that the Governor has through the Emergency Manager are legal. Memes from Uncut Democrats and Occupy Democrats don’t count as valid sources of information despite what my ten year old son says.
Steeh ruled the emergency manager law: did not violate the plaintiffs’ right to substantive due process, to have a local government or to vote in local elections. It also didn’t discriminate based on wealth or against localities with an emergency manager appointed under other laws - all claims in the suit.
In addition, Steeh ruled the law did not violate freedom of speech or the right to petition the government.
In denying the claim that Public Act 436 violates the right to vote, Steeh said the law was enacted as a part of the state’s interest in making sure cities are financially solvent and therefore passes tests set out by the U.S. Supreme Court.
Steeh also ruled that local governments’ powers are given by the state, and therefore the Guarantee Clause — “the United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government,” as stated in the U.S. Constitution — does not apply to local governments. Steeh cited multiple court cases in this ruling.
I don’t disagree that they are legal. At least they haven’t been found illegal. I think they’re what a stupid person would advocate. Which is why letting imbeciles who think Atlas Shrugged is insightful into elective office is a bad idea. Their delusional view of reality causes real world damage.
Your son might have a better grasp on the issue. Maybe you should listen to him.
See above.
Nice try. It’s because the dems in charge of Flint and Detroit were retarded and corrupt and bankrupted the cities. Why do you think the productive people who can hold a real, non patronage job left the decaying urban cores?
What does this have to do with not treating the river water to make it less acidic? What does this have to do with MDEQ lying to the EPA? What does this have to do with the governor waiting three months to declare an emergency after admitting the water was causing lead poisoning?
Are you saying the poisonous water was punishment for electing bad leaders? If only they hadn’t let themselves get financially ruined, this wouldn’t have happened. If only the bitch didn’t talk back, she wouldn’t get a black eye.
Detroit bankrupt. Flint not bankrupt.
If the GOP was solely using the Emergency Manager law to oust local governments that bankrupted thier cities I could grasp that. What the GOP used the Emergency Manager law to do was oust Democratic controlled citiy governments regardless of thier actual financial state.
If Flint was actually bankruptcy they couldn’t have sold bonds, which they did.
Saw a news report stating that the lead pipes causing the problems are the individual supply pipes that run from the water mains in the streets to the older homes in the city. Does this issue only affect these older homes that still have their original lead supply pipes? If so, then this is the homeowners’ responsibility – these pipes should have been replaced decades ago, regardless of how corrosive the water.
Ah! And if these are rented domiciles…as I understand is often the case on the scruffier side of town…then the landlord and his insurance company would be liable, yes?
An interesting plan, Comrade, to stick it to the running dog jackals of the ruling class. Flesh it out a bit, and bring it to the next meeting.
I guess you can say that. I don’t know why you’d want to add that hypothetical to this thread as it certainly doesn’t apply to Flint.
It’s in an area that freezes. There is no applicable way to install and monitor back-flow prevention prior to the service lines. If the main is connected to a lead service feeder that feeder can contaminate water in the main, thus other homes.
Sure these lines should be replaced and it is the goal of every city to replace lead lines. It is an economic burden for both cities and home owners to replace existing lead lines so they continue to exist. Many cities have taken action to remove lead lines and there have been many different approaches used to obtain this goal.
If you’d like to force people in an economically deprived area, where most home owners can prove hardship, you can try. If you change a municipal supply, that people are paying money towards, the courts do not look favorably to you forcing additional expenses onto the customers.
While corrosiveness does not fall under primary health standards it is damaging to components beyond lead service lines. Such as in Flint the focus has been on lead and copper contamination, because they are primary regulated standards. The water has also caused significant damage to appliances such as water heaters. In my area in situations where a municipal utilities water quality has caused damage to personal property legal action has resulted and typically the utility has been ordered to pay damages. Corrosive water damaging appliances, heavy sediment blocking piping, iron staining to fixtures, I’ve seen utilities pay damages for under civil suits. I’m not in Michigan so the courts might find differently there.
I’ve also been involved in municipal supplies that have known issues and the contracts lay out that the utility is not responsible for secondary standards. ie in one such neighborhood the municipal supply has heavy iron, rather than treating the iron at the source(economic and environmental limitations applied) The individual homes have water softeners, at the home owners expense and maintenance, to remove the iron. Changing to such a contract from a standard municipal supply contract without notice would fly like a lead balloon.
Sorry I miss read ‘saw a news report’ as ‘say a news report’
Based on what ive read Flint’s water infrastructure has lead componants beyond service feeders. None of the articles were specific what parts. Lead mains are rather unlikely. In older cast iron piping systems leaded joints weren’t uncommon, every point the pipes are joined they melted lead in to form the seal.
Also Flint’s issues go much beyond corrosive and lead taintend water. There are 10 people dead from legionares desease. This is caused by coliform bacteria, thus the earlier boil water orders. Coliform contamination of the level seen there is something you’d only expect in a third world country. There may be some relation to the corrosion as iron in the water essentialy eats up chlorine capacity, so they may have been effectively undertreating with chlorine.
Good point, and thanks for the memory. When I moved from CA to MI in the early '90’s and bought my grand old 1920’s English Tudor in Grosse Pointe Park (a few blocks from the Detroit border) that still had most all of its original wiring, plumbing, fixtures, etc., it was required by the building inspector that the property be brought “up to code”. Now, this was normally the SELLER’S RESPONSIBILITY, but I agreed to take on all the work to get a bargain price for the place. I was given a short period of time to complete the work prior to reinspection.
One of the issues was back-flow prevention. The bathtub spouts that were mounted where you’d normally have a drain trip-lever had to be replaced with a higher arcing “goose neck” that ended above the level of an overflowing tub. Check valves had to be installed in all laundry and hose faucets, and in the original Sloan valve toilets.
Had there been lead supply piping to replace, I would have budgeted for that in my offer, or let the City compel the seller to remedy it. Happy ending – sold the place (made out quite well on it) and got the hell out of MI several years later.
Is there no such building inspection process in Flint?
Because of politics?
Looks like a Federal coverup. When will Obama be held accountable?
“Angered, Lee-Anne Walters then called Edwards, and informed him that Del Toral
would no longer be working on Flint water issues, and the two discussed the clear
implication that EPA bureaucrats had intervened to prevent Del Toral from further
exposing MDEQ’s numerous blunder and the health threat to Flint residents.”
That does not seem to say what was claimed. It seems more like what Diceman said.
Regards,
Shodan
That’s because you apparently stopped reading after the first paragraph.
Under Michigan’s election law, lobbying by public entities was already prohibited. This now takes it a step further and prohibits the dissemination of **any **information for two months prior to an election-- in city newsletters, for example-- and threatens excessive punishment. Not only that, this amendment was passed without any hearings or public input. The scope of it was never debated, so honestly, it’s hard to understand what is and what isn’t allowed now. And do you think some poor public servants are gonna risk it and potentially face a year in jail or thousands in fines? This effectively muzzles local government.
Oh, but wait, we’ve expanded the ability of PACs to throw dark money at campaigns, so now voters can still get information on local tax initiatives from free-market anti-tax organizations funded by billionaires! Perfect! And with union PACs effectively neutered, the public doesn’t have to hear from anyone who might think differently than us!
This law, like most Republican “election reform,” is just another example of fixing a problem that didn’t exist.
No, its an example of the forward-thinking and proactive approach that Americans have come to expect from the Republican Party. There was no actual problem on the ground, they had won the most recent elections handily. However, there was some prospect that release of unauthorized information might have a negative impact on future prospects, so they took active steps to head off such a threat to the public.
:rolleyes:
OK, so please provide a list of city governments that were taken over despite the fact that they were financially healthy. Never mind, I’ll provide you that list right now:
[ul][li][/li][li][/li][li]_ [/ul][/li]
Detroit was dead broke and a mess, and had been that way for decades. It was a national disgrace, and a statewide embarassment.
Benton Harbor was dead broke, and apparently its finances were such a mess that the review team said that Benton Harbor’s budgets were “meaningless.” Also, the emergency manager was appointed by Democratic governor Jennifer Granholm, before Snyder was even in office.
Flint is dead broke, and has been that way, perhaps not for decades, but for many years at least. It’s had six emergency managers over the last 13 years. Like many municipalities, its biggest problem is huge pension obligations that it cannot afford. It would probably be best if they were allowed to declare bankruptcy like Detroit was, but that requires legislation, meaning it would be a messy political issue.