IT HELLPS PEPEL FIX THEYRE EYES! I CAN MAKE A SHORT OUT OF IT! LAWS R BAD! WHERE AR MY CHEETOS?
KeithT, I haven’t seen a lot of hard documentation on the economic results, but I’m going to hazard three guesses:
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legalization and heavy taxation of marijuana will provide greater government funding, especially if paired with cutbacks on Drug War funding.
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legal users will probably still pay less for heavily taxed and regulated legal marijuana than they do for illegal, blackmarket marijuana.
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hemp growers will make a killing.
>I’m not getting involved here,
Then why are you posting?
> I’m just reminding everyone that marijuana’s “medical effects” are available in other, legal drugs.
Then why did a Federal Court rule that, for some people 1) it is a medicine and 2) it is the only medicine which works for those specific people? That’s why the Federal Government distributes it as a medicine. You probably didn’t know it, but they get a big tin can full of 300 joints direct from the Federal government every month.
And I guess you didn’t read the 1999 Institute of Medicine report which contradicted what you just said. That was the “Official” US Govt. report, BTW.
> And to say that I agree with NightRabbit 100%, and that he was not saying that he opposed legalization because he found it “icky.”
Well, that would make a really good reason to throw thousands of people in jail – because it felt “icky” not to.
> Like myself, he has a serious problem with making legal an illegal substance that we know to be harmful, and to serve no individual positive effect that cannot be reached through other means.
If that is your concern then alcohol should have the toughest penalties against it.
You have it backwards. There are lots of things that are harmful and have no individual positive effect that you might recognize. That doesn’t mean it is a good idea to jail people for all of them.
>If you guys don’t have a problem with making such substances legal, then continue your campaign.
Thanks. We will. We think we are making progress.
>Is my decision based on morals? I suppose.
Well, wonderful. Of course, the law had nothing to do with morals. You knew that, didn’t you?
And what, may I ask, is the morality of throwing someone in jail on the pretext of protecting their health?
>Am I trying to force my morals upon others? No.
I think you failed your own quiz. You certainly are.
> I don’t care if you share my morals or not, but personally I cannot support a measure that would legalize a substance like this.
I take it you have never read any of the most basic research on the subject. I further take it that you couldn’t actually answer any factual questions about the subject – hence your statement above that you don’t want to get involved.
World’s Largest Online Library of Drug Policy - http://www.druglibrary.org
>KeithT, I haven’t seen a lot of hard documentation on the economic results, but I’m going to hazard three guesses:
>- legalization and heavy taxation of marijuana will provide greater government funding, especially if paired with cutbacks on Drug War funding.
According to the Government’s own financial analysis, it would produce about a 37 Billion dollar annual savings (conservatively). See http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer - Basic Facts About the War on Drugs.
>- legal users will probably still pay less for heavily taxed and regulated legal marijuana than they do for illegal, blackmarket marijuana.
Yes.
>- hemp growers will make a killing.
They may for a little while, then it will be like any other crop subject to supply and demand.
World’s Largest Online Library of Drug Policy - http://www.druglibrary.org
>Going a bit offtopic, but what economic effects would we see from legalization? I’m not talking about effects from new users, but the effects on production.
>Will independent producers simply make their wares more accessible and cheaper, orwill giants like Phillip Morris and RJR Nabisco plant thousands of acres of pot somewhere in Morth Carolina? God help us with the next incarnation of Joe Camel…
More likely, it will be along the lines of beer, which has some major products and a lot of micro brewers who brew special flavor products. There are at least as many kinds of cannabis as there are of beer.
Joe Camel is a better option than Al Capone. We proved that conclusively.
World’s Largest Online Library of Drug Policy - http://www.druglibrary.org
The US Government has already concluded that marijuana is a legitimate medicine which offers benefits other medicines don’t. That’s why the Federal Government sends a big tin can of marijuana joints to some people every month.
It certainly doesn’t make sense to jail them to protect their health.
I take it you haven’t read the most basic research on the subject. The DEA’s own Chief Administrative Law Judge heard the evidence from both sides for two years and concluded it was one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. The lethal dose is about one-third your body weight. You can read all about it under http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer under Major Studies of Drugs and Drug Policy.
And I am certain you couldn’t tell us why it was outlawed. You can read all about it at http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/History/whiteb1.htm
World’s Largest Online Library of Drug Policy - http://www.druglibrary.org
Wow, a pot thread that I missed.
Musta overfilled the bowl a little t’other day.
Satan: I’m not afraid to admit it. I support legalization because I want to smoke pot legally.
I don’t think it’s a miracle cure for anything. I don’t think use will decrease with legalization.
I do, however, believe that marijuana is less harmful to individuals and society than alcohol.
I just cannot understand why booze is legal and societally sanctioned and encouraged while weed is shunned by the latter-day Nancy Reagan drones.
Besides . . .
uhhhh . . .
never mind . . .
-andros-
I would just like to comment on “iky”. It’s iky to see someone defecating themselves after drinking too much. It is also iky to see a dead person hanging off a tree from the highway after going off the road from being too drunk to drive.
I have seen both. the point I am making is no matter how you slice it the gov. is acting 2-faced on the issue.
I read another comment in hear saying there are manufactured drugs on the market for termanilly ill patients such as marinol or moriphine.
when my father was dying of cancer he was so heavly sedated that he could barely speak./furthermore He and I both him to at least be coherent for his last moments on earth.
I am not looking for sympathy but it’s no secret that the drugs mentioned above are super powerful and are highly addicting.
I say if the gov wants to make a case about why it should be illeagal then they should do their homework and get the facts. prove to me that you can make some alternative or else make it leagal.
lastly thanks again for all who commented on this subject so far. keep it up. THANKS BCB
Seems to me that this whole thread is focusing on issues of whether or not people should smoke pot, for whatever reason.
As I understand it, the purpose of the discussion is to try to establish whether or not it should be ILLEGAL. To me, the key arguments in the debate should focus on the EFFECTS of this legislation. What good does it do? What harm does it do?
Pro-legalization entries have mentioned some of the harm; no one has made any valid case that these laws are doing any actual good, for society or for individuals.
So here’s my question: We’ve had laws for quite a few years making marijuana, along with a host of other substances illegal. In addition, my adoptive uncle, Sam, has been spending a great deal of my money trying to enforce these laws. What good has it done? What positive things have been accomplished?
Surely, no one thinks that we’ve actually kept people from using marijuana. Which, supposedly, was the purpose. So, what have we accomplished?
Only a small number of people are truly awake. These people go through life in a state of constant amazement.
the problem with legalizing it is that if you did, PEOPLE WOULD SMOKE IT.
Not only that, red dragon, but we’d tie you down and force you to smoke it, too!
:rolleyes:
Just visiting the (many) pot threads to say:
HAPPY 4/20!
And to say that I agree with NightRabbit 100%, and that he was not saying that he opposed legalization because he found it “icky.”
He didn’t say it directly, but that’s effectively what his argument amounted to.
He said:
It would degrade our proud country to allow prostitutes hanging around on the street corners in broad daylight wiggling their bodies at passing businessmen (Amsterdam is the butt of too many jokes to list) ; likewise would it degrade our country to legalize a dangerous substance such as marijuana.
Essentialy, NightRabbit was simply putting a patriotic spin on the argument that marijuana usage is distasteful.
Life is a tragedy for those who feel and a comedy for those who think.
Ah, I’ve been gone awhile but it is good to come back months later and find nothing has changed a bit.
My question is this… Why are there so many who are afraid of marijuana?
I must admit that I am afraid of alcohol.
First off, I think everyone is missing something here. I don’t think it’s a matter of whether it’s good for you. It isn’t a matter of whether it has a pharmaceutical use. It’s not even a matter of whether or not drug use will go up, down, sideways, whatever. It’s not even a matter of what will happen if we legalize it. It’s as simple as this: getting FUCKED UP, in whatever way that may be, is an inalienable right. Who am I to say whether or not you should use this drug, I don’t even know you. It’s not the job of the government to play baby-sitter, that’s the job of your friends and family. I’ve had friends who reacted badly to marijuana, i suggested to them that they stop, even refused to give them some. But if I don’t know you, it’s not my business what you do in your own home. In most cases, it’s not even my business if I DO know you.
Secondly, I think this applies to all other drugs as well. Alcohol is bad for you. But then so is a knife to the gut. Knives are legal, even though they’re usually used on others. Not to mention guns. With a drug, the only person you’re hurting is yourself, and possibly your closer friends, simply because they have to witness you doing this to yourself. But then, a bad relationship can hurt a person’s mind, if not their body, just as much. Shall we make bad relationships illegal? How about depression?
In summation, freedom means the right to hurt yourself in whatever way you choose.
Um, time to replace the batteries in your mindreading device.
I have never smoked pot nor do I ever intend to, whether or not it becomes legal.
I want it to be legalized because of:
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my libertarian political leanings - as was noted the government has no RIGHT to “illegalize” it (to coin a term)
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the “war” on Marijuana has done far more harm than good (including to the government’s bottom line)
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I’d like to see the tobacco farmers grow hemp to be made into paper. Decreases the amount of tobacco on the market without impoverishing the farmers who may have no other means of earning an equivalent living, and at the same time means less eviscerating of forests.
It’s hard for us non-users to speak out about marijuana legalization - because would-be omniscient people like Satan “know” that we’re really closet dopeheads. And because the government has eviscerated the unreasonable seizure laws in cases where they have “reason to believe” there is drug possession, and we fear that speaking out in favor of legalization will be taken as “reason to believe” and our cars, homes, etc. will be stolen from us on false pretence.
(NOTE: I’m not saying it’s okay for the cops to take someone’s car or house if they possess marijuana. That’s wrong too.)
Besides that stuff smells wretched. Bleh. But it’s one of those “defend your right to be wrong” things.
Believe me or not, your call.
Your witty one-liner can appear HERE!
O…O
=o=
Don’t knock SATAN. I believe he is on the legalize side, he just loves to play “Devil’s advocate.”
“When are all of you guys gonna get out of here so I can clean this place up?”
Nah. I’m all for legalizing the stuff, but it is never going to be a big revenue-generator for the government. It’s a weed for crying out loud. If it’s legalized, anybody who wants the stuff could just grow it in their back yard. It would be next to impossible to successfully tax it.
If you tried to tax it, the effort expended in enforcing the tax would likely eat up most or all of any revenue generated.
Legalization would save the government money, by greatly reducing the cost of the so-called war on drugs; but I think it is fallacious to argue that we’re going to get any big tax windfall from it.
Yeah, but (and I have no idea how good an analogy this is) how many people grow tobacco in their backyard so they don’t have to pay cigarette taxes.
I’m sure there’ll always be the pothead Martha Steward who grows their own, taxation be damned, but I think I’m in the majority when I’d say I’d rather have someone else grow it for me and pay the tax. Much more convenient.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good dipped in chocolate.
Not a good analogy. Tobacco is not a weed. It is a labor-intensive cultivated crop, requiring a great deal of care and attention. Additionally, “curing” tobacco requires space most people don’t have. Thirdly, tobacco requires a particular climate, available in the U.S. only in the Southeast. Marijuana on the other hand (being a fast-growing weed), can be grown just about anywhere on the continent.
Punch a few seeds in the ground, or in a window box for that matter, and you can get a nice marijuana crop with little or no effort. That is why it will never be a revenue source.