Leaving the scene of an accident

Factual Questions
1

Hypothetical scenario (very losely based on reality):

In a parking lot accident, two cars bump on each other producing no damage. The other car has previous damage. The fault of the accident is not obviously clear, it could go either way.

You get off your car to make sure everything is ok with both cars and the people in the other car, ready to go through the motions of filling the report and exchanging whatever info it is that is required in such situations. The other driver is a fireball of expletives, threats and violent gestures. You realize that there is no talking to this guy (and living to tell the tale), and lock yourself in your car while you call for help. The other guy starts hitting your windows and yelling for you to get out of the car.

Is it ok to just take off? Should you still try to call the police?

Going one level higher, if the guy tries to prevent you from leaving, blocking your way and continuing to hit your car, at what point is pushing through justifiable self-defense? (yes, I am talking about running him over, if needed)

Say you managed to leave. He is now there, with a damaged car (previous damage), maybe a couple witnesses who will truthfully declare that they saw a car that matches your description leaving the scene in a rush, and as many “witnesses” as he cares to produce saying whatever he wants, since you are not there to defend yourself.

Let’s assume there is nowhere near where you can stick around and watch the scene without fearing that the other guy will see you and try to catch up with you. When you leave, you leave for good. Luckily, the other car doesn’t follow.

What is the appropriate course of action to follow?
Can this guy get you in trouble for leaving the scene of an accident?

(me? I had both babies in the car and just took off and hope to never hear from this sh!tball ever again)

2

Yes you can get in trouble for leaving the scene. Look at it this way. If he goes to the police his story will be much different. “This crazy bitch backed into my car, almost ran me over and left. Here is her description and plate number.” My best advice would be to stay if you could. To stay in your car if you feel threatened and call on your cellphone. If you can’t call or feel you need to get out right away for your safety, leave and contact the police as soon as you can and report it or drive directly to the police station.

3

I can’t imagine that running someone over would be justifiable in this situation. You’re already in your car. You can put the windows up and keep the doors locked; that’s going to keep him from being able to harm you.

4

This may vary by location, but around here, the police won’t do anything if an accident occurs in a parking lot, since it is considered private property. If that’s the case, I would think you would be free to go. My wife got hit in a parking lot by a woman that didn’t have insurance (which is against the law here) and the cops said there was nothing they could do. They said if the accident would have happened in the street, then they could have ticketed her.

5

From my experience, they take leaving the scene of a crime very seriously, and you can get in trouble for that.

I think if he was hitting your windows with the attempt to break them, or otherwise seriously damage your car with the intent to harm you, you could leave to get out of immediate danger, but you would have to drive straight to the police and report what happened. Or call 911 while it is happening and ask where to go for safety.

The only accident I was ever in happened when I was pulling out into traffic onto a road. The car approaching flashed their lights, which I thought meant she was slowing down to give me a chance to get out, which is common at this particular pullout during rush hour. ( She told me later she flashed her lights so I would be sure to see her coming and not pull out ) She slammed right into me, and technically I was at fault.

When I got out of my car to make sure she was also ok, my scared little dog jumped out also, and ran across the busy street. This accident happened directly in front of the police station, and the cops were there immediately. I told the cops I had to go get my dog, who had run into the street. They said no, I could not leave the scene. I grabbed my license and registration and insurance, gave them to the cops, for collateral I guess, saying I wasn’t trying to evade anything, I would be back, I just had to get my dog out of the street.

They still said no, they would arrest me if I left. My dog’s life was at stake, and I felt other accidents could happen should another car swerve to avoid my dog, possible hitting one of the many people now gathered on the side of the road near the accident.

I pleaded with them. When they still said no I then started after my dog. I would accept the consequences, I could bear totalling my car, I couldn’t bear standing by while my dog got run over. One of the cops restrained me and told me he was restraining me for my own good. They would file charges if I left the scene, and leaving the scene was a very serious charge. Didn’t matter if I came right back.

Then one of the cops finally realized that my loose dog could cause another accident because she was running around very frantically, and said he would get her. I knew my dog would not ever let a stranger pick her up, especially when she was so freaked out about being in the car when it was hit. In fact his chasing her was likely to cause her to run either further down the road where the traffic was not slowed down because of the accident.

Someone lent me their cell phone and I called my husband who was just a few minutes away. He came and was able to get my dog. Luckily she was uninjured.

So from that experience I can tell you that had better have a very good reason for leaving the scene of an accident, and a reason you think is good enough probably won’t be for the cops.

6

A similar question to the OP- you are white, driving in an all black neighborhood, you hit someone with your car, accidentally of course, fault could be either one. You look up to see a group of people approaching your car looking like they are about to beat the hell out of you. You drive off, but drive straight to a police station and explain what happened. Crime?

7

It does vary greatly by location. Around here the motor vehicle violations that can be enforced on private property are limited by law but there are a number of them. Both leaving the scene of an accident and failing to report an accident are enforcable on private property. So is no insurance.

8

The private property thing is a load of crap. The cop that said that was just a lazy, worthless, pathetic loser.
Anyways, an accident is not a crime; leaving the scene of one is. If the guy is standing in front or behind your vehicle you don’t have an argument to run him over because he isn’t in a position to harm you physically. Ergo, you committed 2 crimes, vehicular assault and leaving the scene of an accident.
I could go into all kinds of detail of what you should have done, but that’s not very helpful. Given the scenario you described, you are in deep kim-chee.
Get a really good lawyer. The criminal penalties will be minor and any public defender could help you out. You’ll need the good lawyer for the impending civil lawsuit where the guy sues you for everything he can get.

9

You’ve got lazy cops around there, who don’t want to do the work that they’re being paid to do.

If nothing else, she drove (without insurance) on a public street to get to that private parking lot, and when she left after the accident, she drove home on a public street.

If you murder someone on private property, are the cops unable to do anything about it, because the murder happened on private property? What a ridiculous excuse!

10

The circumstances of the event are not as described. Although I do not expect my thug-du-jour to be a Doper, I am going all six-degrees on this and keeping the details to myself.

It didn’t happen in a parking lot, and I was certainly not the cause of his accident. If we are going to stick to the parking lot analogy, it would be more like me stealing a parking spot he was driving to and him leaving in a huff and a puff and then hitting a third car, and trying to blame it on me.

It was late at night in a dark road and this guy (and his 3 pals) were being very violent and aggressive. I was in my car with my panicked wife and my two sleeping babies. If I had had to, I wouldn’t have flinched pushing them off a cliff. I have been in worse situations and done worse things to defend myself. As it turned out, they self-destructed under the most improbable circumstances and I drove off after making sure they were all alive (which gave them enough chance to take a couple of extra hits at my car, btw).

I did not call the police (what passes for the police in this latitudes, anyways), because they would have given them my name and address. No desire to see them terrorizing me at home. I very much doubt that they would call the police or try legal action against me. If they do, that means they have my data and the damage is done, the legal repercussions are the least of my worries.

11

To continue this sidebar, police virtually ignoring accidents on private property (and even very minor ones anywhere) is fairly common. Massachusetts police often imply that you have just called the wrong people when such a thing happens. They will direct you just enough to finding the number to your insurance company and let them deal with the whole thing. I have experienced it myself a few times.

Once, I am sad to say, it was my fault. I backed over a brand new BMW 5 series that I didn’t see behind me with my SUV. The man that was driving it was ethically Chinese and he was very worried about getting the procedures right because he didn’t know much about them or any scams people pull around here. I stood there with him as he called the police and then freaked out when they refused to come at all.

Some states have websites they tell you to go to when this happens to do the report yourself.

12

IANAL, and how.

I find it incredable the lack of common sense in the responses so far.

If you feel your personal safety is in danger, do what you need to do to protect and or defend yourself, the law be damned. Let a judge or jury sort out the extenuating circumstances. If you are successfully prosicuted for leaving, you can appeal. If you stay and are seriously injured, or killed, there is no appeal that will make you whole.

While a police officer might well be obliged to issue a citatiation or even arrest, any reasonable judge would look favorably upon a defendant who feeling threatened, left the scene and immediatly contacted authorities. The spirit of the law regarding leaving the scene is the assumption that by doing so, you are avoiding responibility for your part in the incident. Contacting authorities is a strong argument against the validity of said assumption.

13

This is my experience. It does not have to even be on private proplerty. In San Francisco, I’d left my car down by Ocean Beach because I had gone to a party where I had too much to drink. I called a cab the next day, and the cabbie was driving like a maniac. I was about to buckle my seatbelt because it seemed dangerous (I never buckle a seatbelt in a cab), when he rear ended a car at about 25 mph which had stopped because the car in front of it had stopped quickly to try to park. He damaged his car, the car in front of us, plus the car trying to park.

This was fast enough so that my knees jammed into the front seat and I was actually worried about whip lash. We called the cops and they told us that they would not show up unless someone got hurt. After feeling my knees and neck, I decided that I’d take my chances and that I wasn’t really hurt, I just called another cab. I don’t think I suffered any damage, really.

So, in San Francisco, the cops ain’t showing up unless the accident is bad enough to hurt somebody. This was a bad enough accident to blow out the airbags in the cab, by the way.

14

There’s a difference, is there not, between the Vehicle Code and the Penal Code?

15

Conclusions not based in fact. The laws in different states vary widely as to what violations can be legally enforced on private property. Notice the words law and legally. No laziness necessarilily involved. There is a big think book of motor vehicle statutes here in New Jersey called Title 39. Maybe a dozen of them are legally enforcable on private property. I could easily see the laws in some states being even more restrictive.

As to your second point, for most motor vehicle violations one of the main components that must be proved is operation. Proved. It can’t be implied. If the officer didn’t see the person driving on the roadway he can not prove he did in a court. The driver has no burden of proof to prove he didn’t drive the car to or from the private property, it is up to the state to prove beyond a resonable doubt. It is neither an excuse or ridiculous.

Equating motor vehicle violations to murder charges doesn’t require a reply.

16

I do not know how the law is today in Texas, but in the early 1970’s, it was a big deal to leave the scene of an accident.

I took off one morning riding my motorcycle, planning on taking a ride through the Texas Hill Country. My bike was licensed, registered and inspected. I had no insurance on it, but insurance was not required at the time.

I exit my driveway and immediately see a kid in a go-kart headed towards me on my side of the road. The street is residential, so it is not striped or divided, but the kart was driving on the wrong side of the road. Along side the kart is another kid riding a small motorcycle. He is also headed towards me, driving on the wrong side of the road. He is looking down at the kid on the kart and doesn’t see me as he rides towards me. Behind them is another kid on a minibike.

This is a small neighborhood with little traffic, so it isn’t that unusual to see minibikes and go-karts on the streets out here, although I had never seen these kids before. My street is a dead end and they do not live anywhere near it.

Only a couple of hundred feet from my driveway, I see the situation and move over to the other side of the road to avoid the three vehicles coming at me. The kid on the small motorcycle, still looking at the kart driver, starts to edge over to the other side of the road towards me. I see him do this, pull farther over away from him and apply both brakes. Still, he clips my handlebars with his handlebars and we both go down. I am probably going about 25mph and he the same.

I hit the ground, slide a bit, get up and walk over to my bike and turn the engine off. I hear a scream and turn around and the motorcycle kid is laying off the side of the road, holding his arm. It is broken. The kid on the minibike stops and helps the kid get up, the go-kart has somehow turned around and left the street and I never see it again.

The motorcycle kid tells me he thinks his arm is broken, and he is hurting, but has had it broken before and is pretty calm about it, although in pain. He starts walking off to go with the minibike kids house to call his dad.

I am the last one to leave. I am bleeding and know I am going to be hurting pretty soon, although nothing seems broken. There is no one around to witness this accident, so I ride back home to get cleaned up and fix my bike. I could have stood there an hour and no one may have ever come by.

Because the kid goes to the hospital for his broken arm, he has to tell them how it happened. The staff tells the cops and pretty soon a county sheriff comes to my house to question me about the accident.

They are quite upset that I left the scene of the accident. The cause of the accident and the fact that three underaged kids on illegal road vehicles were also involved and had left the scene before me made no difference. The fact that I was also hurt and was seeking some medical attention to myself was also unimportant. I was supposed to have waited there in the street for however many hours it would have taken for someone to happen by and call the police for me, since I had no idea that they were going to be informed about the accident at all. I think the only reason I didn’t get cited is because lthey ooked at it as a simple accident that kids sometimes have. But they sure gave me a hard time about it.

With no cellphones at the time, no traffic to flag down to ask for help, and the other participants all eager to get away themselves, what was I supposed to do?