Well, I meant ramming the suspect’s vehicle, not the suspect himself - but I am guessing that would still be considered deadly force too?
Assuming the suspect is inside the vehicle when you hit it, yes.
I will concede that the Supreme Court has sent some mixed signals on this issue so the law isn’t 100% clear at the moment.
Peter Parker/Spiderman.
IIRC his origin story is, he had a chance to stop a criminal (hey, trip that guy) he didn’t (not my problem/don’t get involved), soon after his uncle (who raised him) was killed by the same man committing another crime.:smack: 
Good luck getting your insurance paying to repair your car. Or the police.
It’s the same as any other use of force. Most every state limits the use of force to preventing violence to oneself or others. Some states also authorize force to stop a fleeing criminal under certain conditions. Then it is up to the jury to decide whether the use of force was justified and whether the amount of force use was reasonable given the threat.
This is a super ridiculously bad idea for a driver because you have no idea who the bad guy actually is, nor what he is suspected of. A jury would take a pretty dim view if you just rammed a car when the officer intended to give a speeding ticket. Without knowing the offense or the threat, you have no way of knowing whether your violence is justified or whether your force was proportionate.
Here’s the story for reference.
Although, this story said he missed.
And here’s the quote of the police expressing their gratitude.
So, like I said, sometimes, it looks like it’s okay. I, too, was a bit surprised. On the other hand, were I in the situation with a gun and conceal carry license seeing what was going on in front of me, I would like to think I would also have intervened in the situation.
I gotta say, that statement by the Cicero police seems utterly insane to me. They think it would be a good thing if untrained civilians started shooting at people when they personally decided that police needed some help? I can see this going spectacularly badly.
One time I walked into a department store to encounter a staffer wrestling with and struggling to subdue an apparent miscreant (shoplifter?).
I had a few seconds to contemplate jumping in to help, before passing on the idea.
What if the guy on the ground was injured in the scuffle and decided to sue me? What standing did I have to intervene?
Ah! I forgot about the origin part of the story!
If all I see is some guy running from the cops it’s definitely not me that’s stepping in. I don’t know the how, why or even who the bad guy really is.
Indeed, doesn’t it? And the thing is, this wasn’t a news story around here at all. The only reason I know of it is because it came up in a Facebook group for the neighborhood, and I followed up on the story wondering, what’s with this CCL guy? And I never saw anything come of it beyond that.
That said, I do understand not wanting not to make a big fuss publicly over this. Police see an office shot; guy with CCL gets out to help cop, few people in this area would see this as a bad thing. I am somewhat surprised they so publicly admitted it, though.
Relevant video.
Ok, only semi-relevant, but I never tire of it.
mmm
Citizen’s arrayst!
Thanks, this video pretty much encapsulates the OP scenario. I’m guessing that in any other context this would have been considered assault/battery. In fact, maybe in this case it was, and the district attorney simply won’t press charges (and nor could/would the suspect?)
How much weapons training do you think cops get? How much range time and weapons training did that non-cop have? Note that both tha cop and the non-cop are “civilians” unless they happened to be in the Military. Most police officers are civilians.
#1-a lot less than you think.
We dont know the answer to #2, but it could certainly be more.
But yeah it could go wrong. And then, the non-cop would pay the price.
Yep. You don’t know anything about the situation. Trying to intervene in the middle of that is a legal minefield. There is a legal right to use reasonable force in the defense of others, but in this case you had no idea who was the perpetrator, who needed to be defended, or how much force was reasonable.
(I ain’t no lawyer, etc,etc…)
But in this specific case, the civilian seems justified. Because he has a legal weapon, and had witnessed an armed man shoot the cop.
So he knew for certain that the man was armed, had just attempted to kill a uniformed officer, and therefor was a clear and present danger to others.
IANAL, but I guess one of the biggest worries would be if you tried to help but wound up hurting an innocent bystander.
For example, if you tried to box in a car, and attempting to get away from you the criminal’s car goes out of control and hits someone else.
Years ago, there was quite a scene in my neighborhood. I was cooking my dinner around 9:00 p.m. or so, and there was a loud crash. Neighbor bangs on my door yelling. I rush out and my Jeep is in the middle of the road (I had been parked on the side of the road). (I have street parking). Several cars badly damaged, plus a neighbor’s fence wrecked, and part of the neighbor’s garage; and cops everywhere. I’d never seen anything like it.
Apparently, two drivers had seen some drunk sideswipe a friend’s car 1/2 mile away and the drunk had taken off. So they gave chase, while one called 911 and gave them the drunk’s license plate number. And told 911 they were chasing him. Cops were close by (I guess) and 911 told them not to chase him, that cops were close by. The other drivers kept chasing the drunk anyway.
Now—this is in a residential neighborhood, and I’m near the top of a hill. As the chasers were trying to force the drunk to pull over, he swerved. The girl driving one car crested the hill and hit my Jeep and spun it around. (No damage—except for a dent in my steel bumper and a flat tire). The impact shredded her entire front end. The drunk goes airborne as well, and lands near the neighbor’s house and slams through the fence and hits their parked car and the corner of the garage. The other guy doing the chasing hit a parked car.
And apparently (per my neighbors), the cops were right behind them with lights flashing and sirens on.
Lots of damage and a lot of tickets. The drunk guy was given the breath test and stuff and was handcuffed. And one girl who was chasing was arrested as she had an expired license and had no car insurance (and was drunk herself). The other guy left in an ambulance. And there were charges of not pulling over for the police and/or fleeing.
My insurance company paid me off pretty quick but I have no idea what happened so far as the other damages. I would guess that the idiots who gave chase were responsible for most of it.
But I clearly remember the girl driver arguing with one of the cops that she was only trying to help…
So, another video:
Cop tries to arrest someone, the suspect flees, and then around 00:51 a bystander in a white T-shirt gives chase as well, pursuing the perpetrator in assistance of the cop, and body-slams the suspect. Could the suspect later sue the bystander for assault?No, assault is a crime, only the county attorney can pursue criminal charges.
The criminal could sue that bystander, but it would have to be a civil suit for damages, like claiming he has medical expenses due to the body slam. (But it’s likely they were treated at no cost by the jail doctor.) And a jury isn’t likely to look sympathetically on a criminal suing a citizen helping police to catch him.