Min Chen confessed to, and was consequently convicted of, second degree murder in one of the more notorious crimes committed here in the last decade. He was in Canada on a student visa.
This pdf document is entitled, “Agreed statement of facts” concerning his crime.
I draw your attention to the last page, under (the very lengthy) paragraph 87. The final point in this paragraph begins:
OK, I understand why he’ll probably be deported. But why would be arrested and tried, again, for a crime he’s already been convicted of and served time for? Is this unique to Chinese law? Is this a more generic process and principle?
IIRC, China legal code does not recognize double jeopardy. Also, this crime in China would carry either capital punishment or a very long stint in a reform through labor prison.
Owing to deportation, now it’s up to the Chinese authorities to decide his status in China. Not a GC answer, but I’m sure the Chinese authorities are going to look at what the punishment would have been if the crime had taken place in china, and then apply that punishment. they will not say the murderer’s debt has been paid to Canadian society, and therefore he should be free as a bird. If this murderer remains in Canada, I’m sure there is some form of probation and monitoring that would take place. So, it’s not like this murderer would be considered to have completely paid his debt to Canadian society in the first place.
So, China Guy, if China decides to apply the punishment they would have given if the crime occurred there, do they deduct the time served in Canada?
Say, if he serves 20 years in Canada but it would have been 30 years in China, do they deduct the 20 years as “already served”? Basically, would the sentence be more like a “concurrent” sentence or “cumulative”?
After reading the report, I’m just fine with returning him to China right away to face their courts and likely death penalty and save Canada the cost of feeding this scum for a few decades.
Just read the end of the PPT document. Guy has been in jail for 2 years. He was sentenced to life in prison. The prosecuters made clear that if this murderer got parole, then he would be subject to deportation and arrest and trial in China for this crime. This is what seems to be the current case.
Does anyone think this guy should be let back on the streets of Shanghai after 2 years in a Canadian jail? Does it sound like his rights are being violated? Or that his debt to society, the dead girl, her parents, etc has been paid?
Monty, the guy plea bargained and plead guity. Your view on the fairness of the Chinese legal system as zero to do with this GQ thread.
You could search on it but understandably the results are probably pretty biased. FWIW, my wife’s uncle did more than 5 years in one but it’s not something he talks about. He’s actually quite healthy (more so than his brothers) and a pretty successful businessman these days.
I only ask because, like “People’s Democratic Republic” and “collectivisation”, it is one of those euphemisms Communist states apply to some of the uglier realities of living in a “Worker’s Paradise”. In fact, it sounds like something lifted pretty directly from Stalin’s own phrasebook (accounting for translation).
no worries. sometimes I forget that not everyone is conversant in basic Chinese terms. Reform through labor is “laogai” and aka prison camp, and is not meant to be a euphimisim any more than “maximum security correctional facility” means the worst jail we have in the US.
Well, there’s labor and then there’s labor. The phrase ‘labor camp’ conjures up salt mines and chopping down trees in subzero (F) weather and coming back to decaying, vermin-infested barracks to wolf down iron rations. The euphemistic part comes from the idea that people are sent there to be worked to death and get “reformed” into an unmarked mass grave.
I don’t know if anything like that exists in China, or if China would admit it if it did.
Wrong. It has everything to do with this particular question. First, the convicted individual was tried and convicted in a Canadian court and then sentenced to a Canadian prison.
So, the Chinese have a law in place that says they can’t force someone to face trial for something they’ve been tried for overseas or maybe they even have a law that says they will force someone to face trial for something they’ve faced trial oveseas. Big deal! How many articles of their current constitution does their government routinely piss on? Oh, that’s right…all of them!
The root of the matter really is: is deporting the individual upon his achieving parole considered to be extra-judicial punishment? Apparently, the Canadian prosecutors are merely pointing out that if the individual does achieve parole, he is subject to deportation and the receiving country will then apply some kind of punishment. “Is that fair or is that not fair?” is the real question, imho.
Actually, my posted query just above is more of a GD query. The simple fact of the matter is that the Chinese government will do whatever it wants to if the dude ever returns to China. Either they’ll slam him with something trumped up or they’ll just leave him alone or something in between.
the chinese government don’t hve to trump up anything. guy is a confessed convicted felon - can simply imposed the punishment applicable under the chinese legal & penal code. no grey area here. what do you think - if and when paroled in canada, this satisfies the legal requirements of china?
likewise iirc the US can persecute US citizens in the US for child sex crimes done in another country.
That was my first thought as well. Double jeopardy is prohibited under our Charter, so it would seem to me that he could make an argument that deportation to be punished again for the same crime raises an issue. Don’t know if it’s ever come up before. We may have to wait 15 years to find out, since he’s not eligible for parole until then.
For our government, they prosecute for crimes in another country that the other country does not try. There’s a wide difference in that and the case in the OP.
In the context of this question, why not? Are you suggesting that the Chinese judicial system is biased or prejudiced towards people who kidnap and murder children?
Because if you are, it isn’t. No more than any other country.