Legal question re: traffic signals (hypothetical, do not need answer fast)

In My Humble Opinion
1

Here in Virginia, there’s a statute that prohibits cutting through private or public property (e.g. a parking lot) to avoid a stoplight or other traffic control device. I imagine most if not all states have something similar. Ours is easily Googled:

This is worded, and presumably intended, to prevent maneuvers such as these. (Please, hold your applause for my MS Paint illustration skills.)

On my commute home from an old job, there was one particular intersection with an interesting trait — at that time of day, two-thirds or more of the traffic through this intersection, myself included, intended to turn left from the northbound road to the west. The left turn lane was damned near a quarter-mile long. Often, you’d have to wait through two or three cycles of the stoplight before making your turn.

All of that meant, as I soon discovered, that depending on the length of the line when you arrived (there was a tree that served as an excellent marker), it was well worth your while to do this.

I had done that about a dozen times before it even occurred to me that there might be anything shady about it, and only then because I questioned why no one else was doing it. I stopped, but I’ve idly wondered for years whether that trick was legally kosher. The debater in me kind of wanted to keep doing it, get cited under the above statute, go to court, and point out that not only does that maneuver not avoid a traffic signal, but actually passes through one twice as many times as would otherwise be necessary. (The part of me who grew up as the son of a paralegal and knows how well plaintext nitpicky readings of laws generally go for pro se defendants stopped me.)

So, my question is twofold. One, is the Sheetz Shortcut prohibited under the avoidance statute? And two, if not, is there another law that does prohibit it? (I’ve done some cursory searching, but I may very well be ignorant of some key highly-specialized term of art, or, y’know, just failed at Google altogether.)

Virginia-centric answers would be lovely, but since this is a hypo, please feel free to answer for any jurisdiction you prefer…if there are laws somewhere that prohibit this, I’d be highly interested in seeing how they’re worded. Thanks!

ETA: Apparently Imgur direct links don’t work anymore. I run an ad blocker, but if the image links are ad-infested, let me know and I’ll repost on my own host.

2

The Commonwealth could have argued that the traffic control device you were avoiding was the left turn signal portion of the light, I suppose.

It’s not an issue that has been addressed by any appellate court in Virginia.

3

It sounds like the cited law requires that the state show preponderance of evidence of intent. So the question is, how can one, later in traffic court, establish how much “intent” existed at the time? Traffic court’s “preponderance of evidence” in practice, boils down to “well, it looks to me like you must have wanted to . . .”, and then the amount of the fine is announced, which can them be challenged only by multiplying that number by five or ten, and payng it to a lawyer.

4

I don’t know what a “Sheetz” is, but if it’s public or private property not a roadway IMO you’re guilty.

A trick commonly seen here for your scenario (assuming north = up in your diagram) is to make a right turn to eastbound, go a short distance then make a legal U-turn at a convenient spot midblock to westbound, then proceed through the original intersection on the straight through east/west green light. Standard road construction around here has many center islands with lots of mid-block turn pockets to enter driveways or side streets. Very few of which are explicitly marked “No u turn”

Sometimes those u-turns are illegal too. The common move is somebody going the wrong way through a one-way left turn pocket; one provided only for opposite direction traffic. Or just doing the U-turn over a double-double solid yellow lines.

5

That would be my interpretation as well. As soon as you go off a public roadway you’re violating the spirit and letter of the law.

6

Turns out Sheetz is a gas station / convenience market Sheetz.

Doing that maneuver through a convenience market is practically the poster child for “I richly deserve a ticket”.

7

Stop at Sheetz and buy a pack of gum or a jolly rancher. Then exit.

Better yet, buy a newspaper from the coin operated rack outside the door. That’s even quicker.

You are a paying customer and did not break any traffic laws. You just legally used their parking lot to avoid a traffic light.

8

Which negates the time-savings that is the whole point.

9

@aceplace57: I now recall a tale from my college days living and driving like a wild man in the urban core of Los Angeles. I was enough of a frequent flyer at traffic school that the instructor (a moonlighting traffic cop) knew me by name and I knew all his jokes and snappy comebacks. Of which he had a lot; pretty much one for each moving violation in the Vehicle Code. :slight_smile:

When this issue came up he’d say: “There’s no law that says when you enter a gas station you must gas up, air up, use the bathroom, or buy a pack of cigs. But if you exit by a different driveway than you entered, you’re mine!” Ending with a big toothy grin.

10

Or, still better, notice that the pumps are all occupied, and there will be a wait to tank up, so you change your mind and drive on to another station. Oops – that’s illegal. Once you’re in their parking lot, there is a $250 fine for not buying anything. You have to at least get out of the car, smack your head as a gesture to any lurking cop (OMG, forgot my credit card), and then drive away.

11

Legal or not, it is RIDICULOUS to have to wait 3 cycles to turn left!

Call the traffic engineering department to complain about that left turn signal. Might want to get the number, then also place signs saying to call them along the side of the road in that area.

Like: Tell them to make this left turn light longer! Call traffic engineering nnn-nnn-nnnn. (People will have plenty of time to call and complain while they are waiting!)

12

there may not be much they can do. This is a common problem at any signaled intersection when traffic volume is overwhelmingly in one direction. Roundabouts can help, but not always.

13

This is not an authoritative answer, but I must share. Along Route 1 in Alexandria, the main roadway is about three lanes of traffic in each direction. At certain parts there are also frontage roads to allow access to various businesses that are offset from the main road.

A friend of mine (yes, a real friend, not some uncle’s coworker’s cousin) would sometimes pull into the frontage road to make a right turn at an intersection with a red light. (The frontage road allows access to some cross streets.) This was to avoid having to wait for a green light on the main roadway in order to make the right turn that would take you across the frontage road.

Well, you can see where this is going. A Fairfax Country cop ticketed him for using the frontage road improperly to avoid the light at the intersection. My friend just paid the ticket (I don’t recall the fine, I don’t think it was too big) and didn’t contest it. But I still don’t think I agree with the cop in principle.

In principle, I think the two right turns through private property to avoid a left turn signal is more objectionable than what my friend did. But again, I’m not making a claim that I know the law in either situation.

14

This happens fairly often at the small shopping center on my street. A large percentage of the main road traffic turns left onto my street to get on the freeway a half mile away. And there is always some guy who turns left out of the turning lane into the “L” shaped shopping area, and speeds around to the far end and tries to turn left onto my street. If it works, he would save at least a light’s worth of wait. But it is a long drive, 150 yards or so. I have even seen people go through the bank’s drive through lane to give the impression that they are just banking and changed their mind, not overtly cutting through.

But it seldom works, as the traffic coming towards them as they try to turn left is substantial, all the people who just got off the highway.

It is a great pleasure to drive past them as they wait for their turn to try and get out, which seldom happens as there is no break in that traffic flow.

Dennis

15

The taxi drivers in Bangkok know many shortcuts through private parking lots to get big savings in rush hour traffic. This was especially important during the ill-begotten One-Way System where several kilometers could be saved using one such cut-through.

Not necessarily. I’d rather spend five minutes walking around, enjoying the sights and buying a pack of gum than spend two minutes waiting in frustration for a boring traffic light. :wink:

Out of curiosity, how do you know? Did you keyword-search a large database? Or just assume no court would issue certiorari for such frivolity? :wink:

16

I searched several databases.

The first thing I did was check the annotated Code of Virginia. This told me what the current statute said, and also has links to any previous versions or wordings that may have existed prior to being modified. It also has a list of court decisions that have been associated with the section, but this is not always up to date.

I then checked the Westlaw database, which is reliably up to date, and discovered that the only time this statute was considered and reported out of a Virginia appellate court was in 2000, when a Chesterfield, Virginia, police officer stopped motorist Roy Berger Bass for turning through a gas station lot after seeing a police checkpoint ahead. Bass was subsequently stopped and arrested for driving under the influence. At trial, Bass sought to suppress the evidence derived from the stop by pointing out that the officer had no legal reason to detain him: even if he deliberately evaded the checkpoint, that action was not prohibited under Virginia law.

The Commonwealth on appeal responded with some very creative theories. First, they said, it’s “…unlawful for citizens to refuse to stop their vehicles when commanded to do so by the police…” and a traffic checkpoint “…is a command by the police for all those approaching to stop their vehicles.” The Virginia Supreme Court dryly observed that there was no merit to this contention; “[W]e are unwilling to construe this statute so that such command would extend over a distance of 500 feet and one street intersection beyond the checkpoint in question.”

And finally we get to the statute. The Commonwealth argued that the police checkpoint is an “other traffic control device,” within the meaning of § 46.2-833.1:

And the Supreme Court of Virginia disagreed with the Commonwealth here as well, saying:

And that’s it. So far as my searches reveal, this is the only time that statute has been considered by any appellate court in Virginia, and so the question the OP raised – if passing through the traffic light twice but thus avoiding the left turn it controls is “evading” – would be an issue of first impression in Virginia.

Bass, by the way, had his conviction overturned.

17

Short left turn lights are a common problem in northern Virginia. It annoys the crap out of me because we have a ton of people who toddle/sleepwalk their way around the corner which means everybody behind them are likely to not get through the light. Seriously, I’ve seen protected left turn lights at some intersections that are 2 - 3 seconds long before they go yellow. The other problem this causes is people are more likely to make their left turns through the red light! I don’t do this, but I’ve seen two or three cars conga-line their way through a red left turn.

18

Arizona sure was able to resolve this problem! YES they CAN fix it. Check out how Tucson, Arizona left turn signals work.

Hint: You can turn left at any time the straight signal is green, don’t have a red arrow telling you not to turn. Many cars can turn when there are breaks in traffic from the opposite direction. MUCH more efficient!

YOU are the tax payers, so DEMAND they fix it!

19

in Michigan we have the same thing. you get a flashing yellow arrow which permits you to turn left if oncoming traffic is clear.

doesn’t help when oncoming traffic is so heavy it isn’t clear to turn until you get the green arrow.

20

Apparently that’s an increasingly common trick. I’m seeing more and more signs pop up around schools and after-school centers that say “No U Turn between…” the starting and ending periods for typical drop-off/pick-up times. I’m guessing it’s because parents are weaseling around the normal waiting lines and cutting in front of the patient parents to drop off (or pick up) their kids – to the extent that there have been angry confrontations about the line-cutting behavior. Outside of the before-work and after-work rush periods, traffic seems to be clear enough that U-turns in those areas are not a problem.

–G!
“But officer, it’s not illegal!”
“Well, then we’ll post signs to make it illegal.”