OK, say you suspect that you’re under investigation. It could be local, state, or federal. Say you suspect that your office is being bugged, so you get one of those devices that notifies you if bugs are in your office, and it turns out there are.
Now, I don’t think most people would do this, but for the sake of this thread, you decide to search for the bugs. You find them, and then either throw them in the dumpster, break them with a hammer, or in some other way dispose of them.
Is that in-and-of itself a crime? At least I guess it would be destruction of property, but could you be charged with anything else?
If that office was on my property, that I owned or leased, I would expect that I could do whatever I wish with things that I discovered on my property, excluding certain mineral rights, depending upon the varying state laws.
No, don’t destroy them; what you need to do when you find bugs is to start implicating the cops (and your enemy’s) into made up crimes and extra marital affairs. Or just start saying bat shit crazy types things sporadically; when played back in court the jury won’t believe anything you would have said.
As to the direct question, my assumption would be that if somebody puts a device in my home, I’m within my rights to dispose of it as I please, but I don’t know for sure.
As to the implication (should you get rid of them?), I’d say no. Get rid of those and they’ll just pit in more sophisticated devices and hide them better. If you’ve found bugs in the house, just modify your behavior accordingly.
Well yeah, like I said, most people wouldn’t take this course of action. I was just asking what would happen if you did.
If I was a crooked businessman and found out I was being bugged I would start talking about how the sheriff or officer or FBI agent told me they were doing their underage daughter.
If I visited your home or office and I brought a laptop with me but forgot to take it with me when I left, then if you threw it away or destroyed it, I’m pretty sure that I could sue you for the cost of repairs or to get a new one. I don’t think that just merely being on your property would give you the right to destroy or dispose of my property.
Remember that Feedback is your friend. If their mikes are somehow shielded, just blast Metal Machine Music in your office and hold the real meeting at the local starbucks.
I’m pretty sure that If I threw it away, that I would have no obligation to you. I have no burden to take care of people’s lost items in my house, especially if you had broken in and left it there while I was out.
I think you may have some obligation. Laws vary but in general you don’t get to destroy other peoples things even if they are left on your property. Parking lot owners for example are not allowed to send peoples cars to the scrap yard just because the car is there illegally. You have a number of reasonable actions such as having the car towed, ticketed, or contacting the owner to move it.
I’d imagine if you found police property in your home you could request they pick it up or send it back to them. Destroying it is not likely an action the law will find reasonable.
Do the bugs that the police plant in my house have identification on them? I highly doubt it. I could also probably argue that I had no idea what the electronic doo-dads were. Mistaken for parts of my son’s X-box and threw them out.
A parking garage has a reasonable expectation that cars will be parked in his garage, legal or otherwise. I would not have a reasonable expectation that listening devices are planted in my house.
Now is the OP talking about criminal liability for destruction of property or civil liability? Two different things, although I doubt either could stick.
“Merely being on my property” as a guest, with my permission, is (ISTM) very different from “merely being on my property” without my invitation or consent.
Two big factors here: I used the word “puts” and you used the word “visited.”
If you enter my home without my permission and place a device intentionally on my property, I’m fairly sure I have the right to dispose of it as I please. I certainly have no ethical or legal responsibility to take care of it for you.
If you enter my home as my guest and leave a device accidentally on my property, I would certainly feel an obligation to tell you about it and give you an opportunity to retrieve it. I’m still not so sure there’s a legal obligation, but there’s certainly an ethical one.
Except in the case of the bugs they are there with legal permission. You may not have given invitation or consent but the court has. The bugs have more legal permission to be there then the laptop does.
I’d expect police departments to be able to bill the defendants for the loss of the property should it turn up missing or destroyed. It hardly being they most important aspect of the cases likely what happens is taxpayers eat the expense.
I can keep guessing, until someone with actual knowledge wanders through.
It would likely get interesting to have the ‘bug owner’ try to prove in a legal manner that it actually was their bug …“so that device is what is used by your agency nowadays?” and maybe “why did you intend for this bug to be found and destroyed by the defendant? That was your intent, right? Otherwise, why was it found by such a rank amateur?” and other (obfuscating?) details that could be pertinent. All kinds of details would probably need to be given to prove beyond doubt, so to speak, that there was a ‘bug’ to begin with and who owned/operated the thing. Right? If the defendant denied ever finding the bug, what recourse would bug-owner have than to give details to support their claim? (IANAL). It is so easy to just say “wasn’t me - prove otherwise”.
Is that cost worth the exposure/embarrassment to owner of discovered ‘bug’? Seems to me that any agency that does bugging would not want to publicize the fact that someone beat them soundly at their game, and that that agency would try to deny their involvement rather than say “you owe us money for destroying something we can not (or will not) prove you destroyed”.
Or just start saying bat shit crazy types things sporadically; when played back in court the jury won’t believe anything you would have said. 