Do you really think so? Unlike tobacco, growing pot is ridiculously easy. They don’t call it “weed” for nothing. Tobacco requires some real work to make a fine grade of smokable product. Producing a bag of weed isn’t that much harder than producing a bag full of dried grass clippings. Difficult if you live in a small dark apartment, but not difficult if you have a warm, sunny backyard.
cisco, how in the WORLD do you think I’m making up the black and white issue?
people generally think laws against pot are incredibly ridiculous, or the thought of legalization is incredibly ridiculous.
the sad thing is most (not all) people who strongly disagree with legalization are standing on blind principle only. all of the data that we now know to be fact goes very strongly on the side of legalization, I myself have never heard one single argument that holds water, on the side of prohibition.
of the 4 points of light that you shared with us above, the only accurate one was that you personally do not like marijuana. I believe that. the others are kind of silly. I was in on a counseling session with a minor recently, and the only thing the licensed state counselor could say against pot was that sometimes ‘dealers mixed harmful drugs in with pot to get you hooked’ I don’t know about anyone else, but I’ve never, ever seen that happen. they told me that back in the 70s while in health class too. is that all they can say about the dangers? to be truthful the only health risk proven associated with smoking pot is smoke inhalation. guess what? these ‘stoners’ invented an item called a vaporizer a few years ago whereby you do not inhale smoke, only air. it actually TOOK AWAY the only known health risk. but once uncle sam got wind of it, they labeled it paraphenalia and banned production. you can now go to jail for possessing one of these.
you stated that people with brains stopped smoking pot. really. do this. set a google alert for marijuana arrest nationally and you will be jolted into reality my friend. every single day, doctors, attorneys, lawmakers and business owners are busted possessing or growing weed. in fact, MPP is a national organization working to decriminalize and/or legalize marijuana. last year they received an anonymous cash donation for 3.5 million dollars. a reporter for nbc news uncovered the donor, it turned out to be the retired president and founder of progressive insurance. you must be doing pretty well to consider him a loser.
my point is this…if a person really has a clue on subjects like this, they tend to chuckle when someone make comments like yours that have intelligent intentions but fall well short of the target.
First of all, your post is very incoherent. A modicum of paragraphs, capitalization, and punctuation will go a long way towards getting more response for your arguments.
Read this very thread. There are hardly two people who agree on how and to what extent it could, should, or will be legalized.
We have people who:
[ul][li]Want to “tax the hell out of it”[/li][li]Want to moderately and sensibly tax it (this is me for those who are keeping score)[/li][li]Want it to be banned in smokable form[/li][li]Want companies to mass produce it cheaply[/li][li]Don’t want big companies involved[/ul][/li]
Do you have a cite that people “generally” think this? What percentage of the population counts as general? 50, 75, 90?
You’re preaching to the choir. I don’t believe in prohibition.
Actually, if you go back and read them, they’re all accurate.
Why are you telling me this?
Because that was true in my experience. My friends who quit smoking pot got college degrees and/or good jobs, bought houses, lead happy productive lives. My friends who kept smoking pot did not have the motivation to do this or the ability to pass a drug test to get a good job and are now going into their 30s still working for $9/hr as short order cooks. I’m not saying this is universally true - in fact I know it isn’t - but it was my experience.
Preaching to the choir again, buddy. In fact, I often tell people who are as sheltered as you think I am that people from all walks of life smoke pot. I delivered pizza in high school and met more than a couple stoners who lived in mansions.
Do not put words in my mouth. Thank you.
Which comments would those be, exactly? Please to quote with citation, because saying I called the founder of Progressive Insurance a loser will not cut it a second time.
But drboomhauer- how do I know, that the color blue to me, is the same as the color blue to you, man?
my response was incoherent? wow. sorry if my lack of capitilization bothers you, but I think that’s about the only sensible thing you just said.
hardly 2 people who agree on how legalization should occur? so, the literally hundreds of chapters of norml, mpp, asa and safer are full of members each going their own direction? no sir, they are not. there is an extremely defined plan being lobbied in washington as we speak.
want it banned in smokeable form? companies to mass produce it cheaply? want big companies out? I hate to call anyone a liar, but you are making these up. I have volumes of information on this subject and add more daily. these ‘points’ you make simply do not exist outside of your imagination.
I appreciate the fact that you do not believe in prohibition.
I was ‘telling you this’ about the vaporizer, in response to your statement that you believed marijuana to be a dangerous drug. pleade read your own posts before questioning my responses to them.
as far as your last statement, “please to quote with citation”, what the hell are you trying to so articulately say? maybe “please do quote”???
looking at some of your posts I’m sure you are a great person, maybe got picked on a little as a child or passed over repeatedly for promotions as an adult and see these boards as a place to slap people around a bit. I don’t know, and can assure you that the bad feelings I had at seeing your response will be completely gone in 2 minutes, whereas you probably carry that junk around with you. if so I’m sorry for you. good luck in life cisco.
drboomhauer, this discussion will move more smoothly if there are fewer disrect shots at the persons of other posters and substantially more citations provided for things you are labelling “facts.”
OTOH, Cisco, you could also stand to ratchet back some of your umbrage; opening a dialogue with “I think you’re making that up in your head.” is not a good way to encourage polite discussion.
You both need to post fewer comments on the other’s style of argumentation or guesses about the knowledge the other may or may not possess.
[ /Moderating ]
Hey guys, this thread is about pot, so how can anyone get uptight? Anyway, I was so excited to see this thread -I have many thoughts to share. I am all for legalization and do believe that it will be legalized within the next decade. This may be a pipe dream, but I keep seeing little signs that the overall hatred and intolerance of pot is on the decline.
I once heard that the big tobacco companies had purchased acres and acres in preparation for legalization. As I understand it now, the money behind prohibition is primarily coming from (or will come from) the pharmaceutical companies. Pot, with its myriad uses, could be a real threat to these companies. I hope what I heard is correct because who, besides big tobacco, would have the money and cause to fight such a powerful lobby? Besides, big tobacco needs a new product now that cigarettes and smoking have been so demonized.
Also, there is an emeritus Harvard professor of neurobiology or medicine (I would look up his name, but I try to limit my suspicious searches on my work computer) who studied all the literature (basically to the beginning of time) and found that no one had ever died from the ingestion (i.e. inhalation) of the weed. His personal interest in this topic is rooted in the fact that his son had cancer and the only thing that helped after the chemo sessions was pot. The son died, but, in an interview, the professor stated how grateful he was that they had access to marijuana and how much he wanted to see it more widely used in medicine.
Recently, I also heard a story on the news that some elderly folks in a retirement home in Arizona had been maintaining a pot plant, but the city found out and came and ripped it out, even the roots. I think pot should be widely available in nursing homes and retirement communities. One reason is that almost all of us will suffer to some extent before our bodies give out and pot has wonderful painkilling properties. Also, why not give the elderly a way to commune and bond with the memories of their lives? I think it would really help people living in nursing homes to have happier and fuller last days. After all, it’s not like you would be endangering your job or such when you are old and just hoping the kids will come to visit.
Anyway, those are my thoughts. Thanks for posting this interesting thread.
Just my two cents as a strong libertarian who does not, and has never smoked. As far as I’m concerned, “taxing the hell out of it” is a foolish notion, because it has the potential to continue to encourage the black market. Hell, even if it were completely untaxed, it would still save $Billions because of all the money that would no longer be spent on prisons, law enforcement, DEA, Coast Guard, and especially trials (ie, judges, court-appointed attorneys, economic loss from pulling jurors). Hence, if it is taxed at all–which I think it should as long as cigarettes, alcohol, and other non-essentials like that are taxed–it should be taxed only enough to offset the burden that it causes (hospitalizations, law enforcement of issues, etc.)
As far as smoking in public areas, it can easily be handled just like cigarettes. Hell, even if they banned it in all public places, by only allowing it to be smoked in private, pot smokers still aren’t LOSING anything they have now, they’re just legally allowed to continue what they are now. I think banning it in public places is a reasonable concession to allow the nay-sayers to not feel like any of their rights are beeing offended. Similarly, setting some kind of DWH (Driving While High), is also a reasonable concession to make to allow the nay-sayers to feel safe.
In my observation, I’ve seen many people who hold respectable, well-paying jobs and smoke an occasional bowl; just as I’ve seen those holding the same kind of job who come home from work and have a beer to relax. I’ve also seen those who are “happy” holding a low-paying, dead-end job, because they drown their worries in pot smoke or a six-pack. How can we responsibly deny their desire to use (or abuse) these vices, provided they don’t interfere with my ability to do (or not do) the same or, similarly, observer specifically enumerated rights?
I apologize for that, drboomhauer. I meant it but I did not mean it to sound so rude.
tomndebb you are absolutely correct, and I apologize to everyone. I don’t usually get irate.
melangell I think you’re right. 11 years ago no tolerant laws existed anywhere in our country. this next week new mexico will become the 12th state to usher in a medical marijuana law, and 6 more states have introduced legislation. several cities have went to ‘lowest priority’ status, which means you’ll go to jail for spitting on the sidewalk or for a barking dog before you will for simple possession of pot.
to clear up all the ‘taxing the hell outta weed’ confusion, I think a sin tax comparable to alcohol or tobacco is expected. fact is, pot is very cheap to produce. if a person is now used to paying $200 for an ounce, but the dealer is paying $40 for the same ounce, and the grower is spending $5 to grow that same ounce, there is a lot of margin for taxes and fees charged by the feds to the ultimate consumer. under a regulated system, the grower could legitimately be paid $10 and the government add another $20 for inspection, etc.
even after handling, shipping, retail markup for approved retailers, and a full 100% tax the purchaser would be paying a lot less for a federally inspected and approved product than they are now, buying God knows what.
a protected consumer, growers and retailers paying taxes, and a whole new cash cow for the guv. did everyone see the report 2 weeks ago, that marijuana is now OFFICIALLY the #1 cash crop for america? and all the while coming from a network of growers, shippers, brokers, retailers and consumers mostly all under the radar.
right back at you cisco.
Some random comments/opinions on stuff people have mentioned:
–Most people would grow with lights not outdoors. Because that’s how you get the good stuff easily.
–The big tobacco companies won’t be the ones growing and selling pot. There won’t be joints sold like packs of Marlboros.
–People won’t be smoking in restaurants even in the smoking sections. Too many “anti-drug” people for it to be smoked in places other than special lounges/bars/cafes, as well as in private.
–It wouldn’t be legalized per se anyway, it would be decriminalized.
–These “marijuana legalization” threads never go anywhere anyway because almost no one thinks marijuana should be illegal anyway.
Oh, yes, let’s. Then we can have more of this. In duh first grade.
http://www.starnewsonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070322/NEWS/703220444/1004/frontpage
But if pot was legal then it would be OK that he brought the pot in. For show-and-tell, even! Problem solved.
But seriously-- do we have a dissenter? A real, live, marijuana prohibition supporter? Oh goooody! We hardly ever see those around here! Tell us all about why marijuana should stay criminalized. (Because this IS Great Debates, after all… it would be nice if there were some debate!)
You really don’t think 6 year olds should be allowed to smoke pot, do you?
I said that there were people in this very thread who felt this way. Here are the cites:
So hopefully you understand now that I’m not a liar, nor did I make these up.
I personally don’t see the difference in big companies vs small growers. if anything, big companies would produce a more consistent product. I’m sure that a few new anhauser-busch, miller brewing, marlboro companies would surface.
I know a lot of people would grow their own, as mentioned in the previous page, but the taxation is really kind of a bonus. the real victory will come in human rights form, as in otherwise law abiding citizens not being locked up. again, the laws against pot are far more damaging to society than the drug itself.
can you move on cisco? I thought we made peace.
I don’t necessarily agree or disagree with those positions (I hope it’s not rude to say that I really don’t care; marijuana is about #4,000 on my political priorities list.) I mentioned them to illustrate that it was not a black and white situation. When not everyone can agree on 1 of 2 positions, you have the very definition of a situation that is not “black or white”. That is clearly the case here.
I thought we made peace, too. I was clearing the air in what I thought was a very civil way.
Or did you want to stop debating in Great Debates? 