Based on this argument, I vote we criminalize religion. It has all the properties attributed above to drugs.
And if you’re going to analogize getting a date with smoking pot, you should realize that for the two activities to be comparable, the requirements for getting a date should be similar to those of smoking pot. In which case, you need to first argue for legalized prostitution.
It is not necessary to prove drugs cause addiction, it is common knowledge.
When I quit going to church there were no withdrawal problems, but it took me over two years to quit cigarettes with plenty withdrawal problems. Point made.
Okay then, you should be campaigning to criminalize cigarettes. (And I know one person who tried to quite religion twice but kept falling back into it. Your anecdote is matched; moreso, my anecdote is actually about religion, whereas yours is not about marijuana, which nullifies your point entirely.)
I am not convinced that marijuana is as addictive as cigarettes. I’m also not convinced that marijuana is less healthy than cigarettes, which is significantly more important; you have to show that something is dangerous before we care if it’s addictive. I’m addicted to air too, and nobody’s trying to make me quit that.
And, just to make things fun, allow me to point out that it’s not in the US’s habit to make it illegal for people to ruin their own lives and risk killing themselves. Laws are by and large for protecting other people. So even if Marijuana is instantly addictive and also kills at the first drag, this is only cause to illegalize its distribution to minors, and to criminalize secondhand smoke. (At least to the degree that secondhand cigarette smoke has been criminalized.)
It’s not really common knowledge that drugs “cause” addiction. Addictive behavior “causes” addiction. There are physical dependencies that can occur, but I don’t think that’s what you’re talking about.
Just having drugs available does not cause addiction to them. It is not too hard to become addicted to over-the-counter sleep medication, which is freely available. This addiction is not rampant. Perhaps it is because over-the-counter sleep medication is legal and well-regulated and carries a label warning of the risks involved. Society has judged the risks of people abusing sleep aids and decided that their benefits outweigh the risks.
As regards religion, I have tried it many times, but I never inhaled.
Of course, drugs cause addiction, without them there would be no addiction. Usually people who defend drugs are already hooked on them and in denial. The cheap high you get from taking them is short-lived and more drugs are needed each time to achieve that high. That is a sure formula for self-destruction.
I have seen many people crash and burn on drugs, alcohol, and other addictions. I know what I say may not stop all of them, but if some wake-up and listen it is worth the effort. I do care. Seek out friends who don’t do drugs.
As for church, many have been helped, not by the church, but by the message of love, caring, and compassion. I wish you all the best of everything.
Wow! I haven’t heard such a statement (statements, actually) since they used to make us watch Reefer Madness in elementary school. That would have been in the late 1950’s, BTW.
lekatt, there are drugs, and there are drugs. There are innumerable case studies demonstrating the range of addictive potential for virtually every ‘recreational’ drug as well as every drug used for medical therapy. Your statement is demonstrably untrue.
I don’t think that even you believe that tetrecycline (a drug) is addictive. Or aspirin (another drug). And neither will get you high regardless of dose. Both though can certainly kill you if you are so foolish as to significantly overdose.
Even if we confine ourselves to ‘recreational’ drugs, drugs used ‘to get high’, there is quite a range. Tobacco, or at least nicotine, is certainly highly addictive. So is cocaine. Marijuana though, despite claims made in the above cited movie and repeated by others including yourself, is not addictive. Habituating, yes; addictive, no. Nor, for most people, does it require increasing dosages to achieve the same ‘high’.
Modern psycho-theory seems to indicate that there are ‘addictive personalities’ - people who require some kind of crutch to deal with life. Such people seek out their own crutches of choice (alcohol, narcotics, physical pain, and a host of others) to which they addict themselves. These people cannot extricate themselves *from * themselves (and thus from their addictions) without psychotherapy.
And there are some unfortunate people who become, shall we say, circumstantially addicted to certain narcotics because of stupid choices - bad choice of friends, bad choice of lifestyle, bad decision about what is ‘cool’. These people can get free of addiction, with help, if they work at it. Recidivism depends upon their further choices.
So please, let us not paint with too broad a brush. It totally defeats whatever point you might have been able to make.
CannyDan- out of curiosity, how would you distinguish “habituating” from “addictive”?
lekatt, these guys got to you before I had a chance to. it is closed minded thinking that really fires us up.
stolich, I believe the difference would be addictive usually means has chemically addictive properties, where habituating means you can fall into the habit.
BIG difference, that’s why you see people going into rehab for alcohol, they just cannot quit on their own. so many celebrities have been in betty ford more times than gerald was. (sorry) and is usually for alcohol, herion, cocain, meth, but never pot. ever see someone wake up with the shakes until they have that 1st joint? I haven’t.
I have personally known people who smoked weed on a daily basis for years and had to quit for job-related reasons, and all say the exact same thing. the 1st and 2nd day they think about lighting up, but don’t have a strong urge. by the 3rd or 4th day they aren’t even thinking about it anymore. it would take longer than that to become a vegetarian and have your system cleaned out.
btw, sorry about the punctuation and sometimes spelling. sometimes I get busy @ work and don’t take the time to proof.
lekatt, did you know that more americans DIE each year from legal, prescription drugs than from herione, cocaine and meth combined?
How does criminalizing drugs help this in any way? The war on drugs has been an unmitigated disaster for addicts. If we treated drug addiction like a disease and not a crime we could help people instead of marginalizing them. Look at the heroin maintenance programs in the UK and how they’ve helped those people live normal lives. Not to mention the fact that if drugs were made legal children would no longer have direct access to drugs through the illicit trade. How many hardcore drug dealers care if their product gets to children? My guess is zero.
good point, guppy. most 15 year olds will tell you that they can find someone to buy booze, but they don’t need to find anyone to buy them drugs. drug dealers don’t ask for ID.
This, and the link below, answers most of the posts in favor of marijuana. The bottom line is always: “it won’t happen to me” and it usually does. I am talking about recreational drugs. Drugs that are used by individuals to get “high.” Smart people pass them by. If everyone quit recreational drugs the criminal element would disappear. If you legalize it, it gets worse. Something like 40 percent of all fatal car crashes involve drugs, yes alcohol is a drug also. Wouldn’t it be nice if everyone stopped doing drugs, think of the grief it would save from happening. No one can say drugs are good for you and be correct. Recreational drugs I am talking about. Yes, I am aware marijuana is used for medical reasons in some cases, under a doctor’s care. That’s fine, and for those of you who say you will do drugs even though they are illegal, I have nothing to say. You make your own choices and pay the price for those choices, we all do.
Q: Can people become addicted to marijuana?
A: Yes. Long-term marijuana use can lead to addiction in some people. That is, they cannot control their urges to seek out and use marijuana, even though it negatively affects their family relationships, school performance, and recreational activities (9). According to one study, marijuana use by teenagers who have prior antisocial problems can quickly lead to addiction (3). In addition, some frequent, heavy marijuana users develop “tolerance” to its effects. This means they need larger and larger amounts of marijuana to get the same desired effects as they used to get from smaller amounts.
It doesn’t answer any of mine. Just because drugs are harmful doesn’t mean that the criminalization is not also harmful. Would you care to directly address any of the posts in this thread? This is Great Debates.
You want to put people with addictions in jail where I believe they will just get worse, I’d like to help them. With the money we get from the increased revenues from legalization we could offer treatment for those who want to use it instead of dumping billions of dollars into enforcement that does nothing to solve the underlying problem (and probably actually exacerbates the problem).
Such weaseling after that big “yes”. Even a weasely question.
jeez lekatt, a reference from the nt’l institute of drug abuse? I can post webpages from more credible sources illustrating whatever I want to prove. I don’t think the posters on this site necessarily still believe everything the government tells them.
let’s look at it from a common sence standpoint. marijuana is (among) the oldest of all drugs, and is inargueably the most commonly used illegal drug on the planet, and pretty well always has been. meth, heroine, acid, even alcohol–we all know of the dangerous and sometimes addictive nature of these, but if pot were really the ‘dangerous and addictive drug’ our government wants you to think it is, wouldn’t we know it by now? you never hear of people addicted to pot and trying to recover, because chemically it has never, EVER happened. your reference webpage cited hundreds of teens in rehab for pot, but what it doesn’t tell you is that when teens --and often adults-- get caught smoking pot the 1st action is almost always drug rehab in some form. hundreds of thousands of american teens are in rehab as we speak, but not because they are addicted to pot but because they got CAUGHT smoking pot. all the difference in the world. a 16 year old kid who has never seen pot before, behind the school takes his very 1st hit and looks up to see an officer coming towards him. does this kid need to be rehabilitated? no, but it makes some people sleep better at night. truth is sometimes these kids go to rehab and meet new friends, and go down a worse path (meth).
SO, this doesn’t tell us our kids are more likely to get addicted to pot, it just says more kids are smoking pot. now do you think the war on drugs is being won?
I had a very close friend a few years ago, who smoked pot every single day for roughly 20 years. he went into a new line of work where he could no longer smoke, so he quit. period. no rehab, no methadone. nothing. he said for the 1st few nights he was used to going outside and smoking up, but after a few days he didn’t think about it anymore. I have had similar experience myself, so I am talking about a good hard fact, not what the american government in the 20th century decided was factual. mj has been cultivated as far back as 10,000 years ago by the chinese and was perfectly legal worldwide until about 70 years ago. at that point our guv demonized it as a way to get rid of the mexican immigrants. look it up. do you know that the average person was familiar with hemp back then, and had no clue that the ‘devil weed marijuana’ was actually what they called hemp? the powers that be started calling it marijuana because it was the hispanic term, and sounded unfamiliar and thereby untrusted.
Here I thought they made rope out of hemp, no wonder the sailors ate it when they got hungry. I have no doubt you could find a counter argument to any one I put forth. That is the nature of the beast. I will never encourage anyone to smoke cigarettes, marijuana or do any other drug. It is an unnecessary complication to life.
Q: Can people become addicted to World of Warcraft?
A: Yes. Long-term World of Warcraft use can lead to addiction in some people. That is, they cannot control their urges to seek out and play World of Warcraft, even though it negatively affects their family relationships, school performance, and recreational activities (9). According to one study, World of Warcraft use by teenagers who have prior antisocial problems can quickly lead to addiction (3). In addition, some frequent, heavy World of Warcraft players develop “tolerance” to its effects. This means they need larger and larger amounts of game time to get the same desired effects as they used to get from smaller amounts.
lekatt, Hogwash brings up a point I was about to make. There is internet addiction, video game addiction, there is food addiction, there is gambling addiction, the list goes on and on. Our response isn’t to criminalize these things, spoil everyone else’s fun and drive these people into a life of crime. And at least the people with the above addictions pay taxes on their vices, and if need be, some of that tax revenue can be used for education and treatment.
Here’s a USA Today article about California’s efforts against pot growers. There’s just a tremendous amount of money making its way into the hands of Mexican drug cartels who defend their pot farms with weapons and have no regard for the environment. Demand for pot is higher than ever and California isn’t known as a weak economy suffering under the weight of an epidemic of under-achieving slacker potheads. Quite the opposite.
Not to mention workaholics, TV addicts, and sex addicts. Should we therefore make alcohol, tobacco, drugs, caffeine, the internet, video games, food, gambling, work, television, and sex illegal?
I can’t eat at most buffets- I end up eating more food than I should, and feeling lousy afterward. But I don’t think buffets should be illegal for everyone- I just don’t go to them. People who can’t drink, smoke, or use drugs without causing problems in their lives should realize that, and stay away from those substances, even if they are legal.
Making drug possession legal could free up police and court resources to deal with the drug and alcohol users who are actually causing problems- the drunk drivers and the people who are neglecting their kids in order to get high. Also, it would make it easier for people who do have drug problems to get treatment for them- most people would be more willing to tell a doctor or counselor that they have a problem and need help if they know they won’t be turned in and arrested for admitting it.