Gotcha. But I also asked “How so?”
What’s your religious affiliation, or your lack of one?
Are you going to post a treatise explaining what you’re doing to work against every negative expression by anyone claiming to share it, every time you post on the subject?
(I hope not. I go in for wordy and frequent posts myself, but there’s limits.)
Demanding that every Muslim disavow terrorism would be IMO both a jerkish and a bigoted move.
Oh good lord.
Where are you on teaching history to children? Are you with Josh Hawley?
I thought it was selfexplanatory. I asked whether you liked that analogy better.
I’ve already replied to your response to it.
? i have no understanding of you here.
If I self identify as someone or something on a web forum site I will take responsibility for it. If I post in a political thread as that person I will take responsibility. Do you exempt Muslims from any obligations along these lines?
I am self identifying as a liberal, progressive basically.
Straw man. When did you stop beating up Sikhs?
Also: Religion and political parties are different to me. For so many reasons. It’s hard to even start.
Oh, pass. I vote but that is the extent of my political activism. Well that’s not true I did write to my Senator once in favor of a bill that directly benefited my business. I have debated running for congress but I don’t really have time between running three business and having a family so the best you’re going to get out of me is repeatedly saying trump sucks and voting against anyone who supports him.
OK. Give us your detailed explanation of how you’re fighting against every negative thing done in the last decade by somebody claiming to be a “liberal” and/or a “progressive”; including those who you deny are liberal/progressive.
I’m sure Octopus can supply you with a list. I haven’t time to hunt up a more accurate one.
You just said it yourself! read your own damned post. It’s 1424. Not by the sidebar.
So why are you saying Muslims should have to defend themselves against political charges?
– I’ll be back eventually; not for a while.
I’ve been lurking for a while. Fuck conservatives. They’ll kill us all with climate change. I wish the worst for them.
Can I ask you a question here? Not intended as a gotcha, just a thought experiment to get some idea of the perimeter that an anti-Trump coalition might enclose.
Let’s say it’s summer of 2024. The Republican Party ran away from Trump in 2022 and did poorly, losing seats in both the House and Senate. (Unlikely, but what I need from my thought experiment.) So Trump, painting himself as the savior of the party, announced his candidacy on Thanksgiving Day of 2022, spoiling family dinners nationwide. Stephen Breyer has been replaced as a Supreme Court justice, Clarence Thomas just got out of the hospital after his second heart attack in nine months, and Samuel Alito just found out he has pancreatic cancer.
Joe Biden is again the Democratic nominee for President, and he promises action on gun control at the Democratic National convention, highlighting a brief speech by Gabby Giffords.
Would these circumstances prompt you to vote for Trump?
The question is in many ways unfair - the hypotheticals are highly unlikely - and if you want to pare it down to the point where you definitely wouldn’t vote for Trump, be my guest. You did mention that you would vote against any Trumper because of their threat to democracy - but I’ve heard plenty on the right who characterize themselves as pro-gun-rights and see any move for gun control as a threat to democracy itself, which is why I posed the question in that way.
But it’s the kind of question that any piece of a political coalition has to face - how far can I go to stay in? Some conservative never Trumpers can’t quite go to the length of support for Biden. And there are plenty of progressives who consider their support for Joe Biden to be a turd sundae they have to eat and smile about - particularly with the slim Democratic majorities in the houses of Congress. They’re not getting everything they want, Fox News rhetoric aside.
Do you have some cows too sacred to sacrifice to the cause of keeping Trump out of the presidency?
Nope. Trump controlling the government means an end to democracy. Even evil gun stealing Biden won’t do anything that can’t be over turned in the next election. Once they kick down my door and take my guns I may be motivated enough to donate money or get personally involved to kick every Democrat out of office but at least I’ll have an opportunity.
Certainly, if Biden starts locking up conservatives and putting them in re-education camps as has been proposed by someone in this thread then he would be a greater threat to this country. Where exactly is the line where I think Biden is worse than Trump? Not certain, going house to house and seizing guns is pretty close but just an election that might change the court that might rule that its OK to take guns is on the other side of the line.
Thanks, I appreciate your answers.
Why would I need to do that?
My needs are based on the current conditions. Your point is a both sides what about.
On here I don’t see the big problem with liberal insurrections, anti science, bigotry, anti voters rights, using children for political hostages(Right out of the 19th century).
Many many Powerful and influential Rs like Rand Paul are off in crazy town shouting Gestapo at the health system in this fucking country. looking for something…an advantage in 2022. Demagoguing little kids lives. It is very short term. Total nihilism.
You know trump is going to run in 2024 and no one will tell him no. Think about that.
Only if they are tied to terrorism in some rhetorical way.
Look making the modern conservative movement into a religious freedom issue is very convenient. That’s what they want. Then there is no objection possible to them.
I am an american adult who lived through the Millenium. I have heard many many ordinary Muslims speaking and I have heard many radicals too. I don’t think they share any goals that worry me.
I am calling on conservatives to be thoughtful. Look up again at the thread title. This is the place. I don’t know why I am being accused of forcing them into defending evil.
I have very little tolerance for Republicans who say insane shit because they know the base is watching. You know there is a base and they rule the party. They are more important than either regular or trumpy republicans. They all obey the base in some fashion and the base is worrisome to me.
But the Roman Empire did collapse, as opposed to the Byzantine empire.
There are many many elements of trumpism in the conservative movement and vice versa and they can’t be denied without losing moral and intellectual credibility.
The conceit here to deny any connection with trump but claiming to be a Reagan or a Gingrich, or a Bush Republican, or a Ron Paul Libertarian can’t be taken seriously. Trump was not a new thing. He was a part of the conservative project that got off the leash.
I mean people should not be pilloried about it everywhere they go for life. But look up at the thread title. This is where it is supposed to be on the agenda. To be thoughtful.
Muslims have a couple of big paths they can take. And they are a religion in every sense.
Conservativism right now is a slurry of masked and crypto motivated trolls. Every issue is another horrible take on life and the country for the benefit only of the speaker and only in that moment. They even have a new potential “religion” popping up in their ranks.
One is a religion and the other is something else.
It survived longer because the Western Roman Empire inherited the problems of defending against barbarians. They encountered an ecological crisis, which compounded some of the errors that emperors had made such as devaluing the currency. It got to the point where they had trouble paying the troops. An empire (or a nation-state for that matter) is not long for this world once it gets to that point.
This is monumentally wrong.
It’s worth noting that the current surge at the border began in May 2020. Remember who was president then? And for the next nine months, as it continued to climb higher?
It’s true that certain Trump border policies were discontinued because the Supreme Court said so, which did lead to exacerbating the problem at the border. If you wish to characterize that as “Orange Man Bad” I can’t stop you, but one might suspect such a characterization was not being made in good faith. Also, Trump was still in office when that happened too.
If there are other “Orange Man Bad” policies you wish to mention, please proceed.
You have repeated this nonsense over and over through the years, and pretty much every time it’s been thoroughly debunked. And then you go quiet for a while, and eventually just repeat it again.
When people claim you argue your positions in earnest, I think of your habit of doing this on various points and I beg to differ.
Early on in this thread there were attempts made to disentangle “conservatism” with “extreme reactionary nutjobbery”. Both are right-wing, but the latter have taken over the Republican party, with scant few actual conservatives left. But they do exist, even in opposition to Trumpism.
That’s the whole thread right there! They all cater to a base though. It’s the base that sets the tone for trumpers and non trumpers too. They just respond a little differently.
The non trumpers will not abandon the base though. The base gives them cover for racial stuff they can’t get in any other way.