Let me hear your low-carb stories!

[TravisFromOR]

@Stoid

Do the google.

No, I meant you conclusion that because a broken brain functions on a broken diet, that broken diet can’t hurt a normal brain.

[Stoid]

@TravisFromOR

No, I meant you conclusion that because a broken brain functions on a broken diet, that broken diet can’t hurt a normal brain.

I guess you’ll have to take it up with neurologists.

[TravisFromOR]

@Stoid

I guess you’ll have to take it up with neurologists.

How many neurologists do you know that say that a ketogenic diet is healthy for a normal brain?

[Stoid]

@TravisFromOR

How many neurologists do you know that say that a ketogenic diet is healthy for a normal brain?

How many do you know that say it isn’t?

And what logic do you use that suggests to you that what is good to treat a damaged brain would damage a healthy brain? Why would a damaged brain somehow manage to avoid the damage that you think might happen to a healthy brain on the same diet?

[TravisFromOR]

@Stoid

How many do you know that say it isn’t?

And what logic do you use that suggests to you that what is good to treat a damaged brain would damage a healthy brain? Why would a damaged brain somehow manage to avoid the damage that you think might happen to a healthy brain on the same diet?

1. I never said that it would damage a brain, nor did I imply it.

2. It is obvious that a ketogenic diet alters the way a brain functions. You seem to be ignoring this fact.

[Stoid]

@TravisFromOR

1. I never said that it would damage a brain, nor did I imply it.

Sure you did. That is the whole point of this exchange. I concluded “good for sick, good for well” you questioned that by asking why I didn’t think it might be bad for well. Whatotehr inference should I have drawn, other than that it might be damaging to a healthy brain?

2. It is obvious that a ketogenic diet alters the way a brain functions. You seem to be ignoring this fact.

Hardly. If it didn’t have an effect, it wouldn’t be a worthwhile treatment.

But you seem to think that a good diet for a broken brain might be bad for a healthy one. I ask again: what is your logical process?

And if you don’t think it might be bad for a healthy brain, then there’s nothing to discuss.

[Gestalt]

1. I honestly am having a lot of depression issues right now
2. Stoid, I think the reason ketogenic diets might be used to treat seizures is because seizures are, basically, overactivity of the brain (uninhibited firing of neurons). From everything I know, the brain uses glucose preferentially and optimally.
3. I found some sites that show that unless you’re eating <20 g carbs, you should be getting enough glucose for your brain. I will post them when my own brain is working a little better later on in the day.
4. Probably it’s like the human body and most things wrt diet, it depends a lot on the individual

[Gestalt]

The wikipedia article on seratonin says that evidence suggests that a large number of carbs increases the release of seratonin.

My depression issues might also have to do with the fact that I can no longer get quick little “highs” from a carb-rich snack, or they might just be Atkins-flu type thing that will fade w/i 6 weeks.

Even if someone could magically tell me that I would be depressed as long as I was on a low-carb diet, I’d probably still low-carb it anyways.

[Gestalt]

http://charm.cs.uiuc.edu/users/jyelon/lowcarb.med/topic5.html

Laura Dolson

The above are a couple of articles refuting the idea that low carb diets are bad for the brain.

[rhubarbarin]

I’ve read that 50g daily is the necessary amount of glucose for most people.

I ate pretty low in total carbs for a while. Low enough to be in ketosis much of the time, although I never tested to see if I was. It really helped some of my issues (no menstrual pain at all, no migraines for the first time since I was 3 years old) but also aggravated some; my long-standing mild depression was worse, and so was my ADD. I never felt quite right mentally, and I tried it for 7 or 8 months. Physically, I felt pretty damn great though.

[kayaker]

@rhubarbarin

I’ve read that 50g daily is the necessary amount of glucose for most people.

And yet, people fast for varying lengths of time.

[Drain_Bead]

I wouldn’t say that fasting for long periods of time is good for the brain. I skip meals on occasion, and by the end of a long fast I get a bit foggy.

I tend toward anxiety rather than depression, and eating low-carb has helped with my jitters and anxiety quite a bit. I think a lot of it had to do with sugar highs and crashes.

[kayaker]

@Drain_Bead

I wouldn’t say that fasting for long periods of time is good for the brain. I skip meals on occasion, and by the end of a long fast I get a bit foggy.

I know people who do 3 to 5 day fasts specifically for the mental clarity they believe it leads to. Also, there are many who claim things like:

One’s mind becomes clearer and one’s ability to think and solve intricate problems is enhanced. One is simply more alert, and one’s mind seems to open up into new fields. The mental and physical senses are heightened, and often there can be a feeling of euphoria, especially during longer fasts. Some, for the first time, will experience emotional stability. The reasons for this are multifold - the elimination of the emotional dependence on food, exclusion of stimulating foods like caffeine, processed sugars, recreational drugs, tobacco and trans-fatty acids, all of which can have a devastating effect on delicate emotions.

[Enderw24]

Low carb diets are awesome. Usually I’ll just eat a meal like a bacon sandwich (subbing out the bread for two pieces of ham). But occassionally I want to eat healthier. So I’ll cook up a bag of spinach, melt a stick of butter over it, and I’ve got the perfect side accompaniment!

Of course, there are times when I’m looking to splurge a bit as you would with any diet. So that’s when I cook up some cornbread muffins (about three should do it). Don’t forget the butter because it’s low carb!

I’ve only been on the diet for a week now and haven’t actually lost any weight, but I really feel like I’m on the right path for a new, skinnier me.

[rhubarbarin]

@kayaker

And yet, people fast for varying lengths of time.

Yes dear, because if you don’t eat glucose, your body converts amino acids to ketone bodies which provide the necessary fuel.

[kayaker]

@rhubarbarin

Yes dear, because if you don’t eat glucose, your body converts amino acids to ketone bodies which provide the necessary fuel.

Yep, I’m aware. I was wondering if you were, based on:

@rhubarbarin

I’ve read that 50g daily is the necessary amount of glucose for most people.

[Stoid]

All this information! Good to know for us all.

Regarding how ketogenic work on epileptics and what they do:

            **Ketogenic Diet Prevents Seizures By Enhancing Brain Energy Production, Increasing Neuron Stability**

                                       ScienceDaily (Nov. 15, 2005)  — Although the high-fat, calorie-restricted ketogenic diet (KD) has  long been used to prevent childhood epileptic seizures that are  unresponsive to drugs, physicians have not really understood exactly why  the diet works.  New studies by a research team at Emory University  School of Medicine show that the diet alters genes involved in energy  metabolism in the brain, which in turn helps stabilize the function of  neurons exposed to the challenges of epileptic seizures.  This knowledge  could help scientists identify specific molecular or genetic targets  and lead to more effective drug treatments for epilepsy and brain  damage.   

They found, as had others, that in rats fed the KD the resistance to seizures develops slowly, over one to two weeks, in contrast to rats treated with conventional anticonvulsant drugs. On the cellular level, they found that the anticonvulsant effect of the ketogenic** diet did not correlate** with a rise in plasma ketone levels or with** a decrease in plasma glucose..**

Finally, the researchers tested whether brain tissue affected by the KD would be more resistant to low levels of glucose (an effect of seizures) because of their enhanced energy reserves. They found that synaptic communication in KD-fed rats was** more resistant to low glucose levels **than in control animals fed a regular diet.

The researchers believe their new knowledge could lead to the development of more effective drug treatments for epilepsy and brain damage.
And because the diet enhances the brain’s ability to withstand metabolic challenges, they also believe the ketogenic diet should be studied as a possible treatment for other neurodegenerative disorders such as Alzheimer’s or Parkinson’s diseases.

So, rather than depriving the brain of glucose, it appears that a ketogenic diet helps the brain cope with low levels cause by other things.

On the flip side…

Higher Blood Sugar Levels Linked To Lower Brain Function In Diabetics, Study Shows

“One of the little known complications of type 2 diabetes is memory decline leading to dementia, particularly Alzheimer’s dementia,” said Williamson, a professor of internal medicine, director of gerontology and geriatrics research, and director of the Roena Kulynych Center for Memory and Cognition Research at Wake Forest Baptist. “This study adds to the growing evidence that poorer blood glucose control is strongly associated with poorer memory function and that these associations can be detected well before a person develops severe memory loss.”

Diabetes is a risk factor for mild cognitive impairment, vascular dementia and Alzheimer’s disease. Previous studies have shown that people with **diabetes are 1.5 times more likely to experience cognitive decline and develop dementia than people without diabetes. The ACCORD-MIND study supports the idea that the brain’s chronic exposure to elevated blood glucose levels may be part of the explanation **for this phenomenon.

For brain health, my vote goes to low carb.

[Ellen_Cherry]

Moderator Note

@Enderw24

Low carb diets are awesome. Usually I’ll just eat a meal like a bacon sandwich (subbing out the bread for two pieces of ham). But occassionally I want to eat healthier. So I’ll cook up a bag of spinach, melt a stick of butter over it, and I’ve got the perfect side accompaniment!

Of course, there are times when I’m looking to splurge a bit as you would with any diet. So that’s when I cook up some cornbread muffins (about three should do it). Don’t forget the butter because it’s low carb!

I’ve only been on the diet for a week now and haven’t actually lost any weight, but I really feel like I’m on the right path for a new, skinnier me.

Uh-huh. Let’s stop with the threadshitting, Enderw24. You should know better.

Ellen Cherry
Cafe Society Moderator

[Renee]

Someone up thread mentioned coffee. Is that a low carb no-no? I hadn’t heard that.

[Stoid]

@Renee

Someone up thread mentioned coffee. Is that a low carb no-no? I hadn’t heard that.

I seem to recall reading that some people find the caffeine somehow messes with the process, but I’m not sure exactly how.

But at the end of the day, I don’t think there is One True Way to use carbohydrate restriction to control your weight and health, so I wouldn’t get too caught up in that. I think the best thing to do is figure out what works for you, starting from either end: either start by cutting out the sugar and white flour, and keeping cutting until you find the level of carb restriction that works, or start at near-total elimination and slowly add in until it stops working.

Because I think what Jane can eat and lose with is always going to be different than what Jon can eat.