BTW, where does the Conservative Party stand on proportional representation?
DAMN!
I’m Stunned Harper would do something so stupid on his first day. He alienates some of his MPS by nominating a campaign worker (which smacks of Cronyism). He appoints that person to the Senate which he always said should be an elected body rather than a place for the ruling party to stack their friends and supporters.
He does a weak about face on MPs crossing the floor with Emerson’s flip flop. Sorry, but giving a cabinet position to someone who crosses the floor is wrong.
In my opinion the cost of leaving your party should be a by election. Your constituents voted for the party as well as the person. No MP should have the right to take their votes to another party without a mandate from their people.
Speaking of Emerson did you hear his interview after the Caucus meeting? I’ll give him credit for his honesty, but maybe it is because he thinks his constituents are just stupid.
When asked if he would have kept a Cabinet position if Martin had won he said of course he would have. This guy is out and out a opportunistic dick head.
We were supposed to have change in government and a new fresh chance to renew faith in that organization. Harper has betrayed that.
For the first time in my life I have to agree with those people who say all politicians are the same and all corrupt. Fuck I’m despondent!
I have no one left to vote for… I’m moving to Quebec and vote Bloc. At least I can count on Duceppe to do what he promises
On the upside, there go the complaints that the Conservatives have no “Big City” representation.
I dislike the Emerson cross-over. It smacks of opportunistic backroom dealing and I can’t remember a single instance where it could be linked to the man’s principles. The Stronach move still appears worse to me. There was an ex-leadership candidate, deeply linked to the merger and success of the new party, simply crossing the floor to ensure her party’s motion failed. Of course at the same time I was always surprised she ran for the Conservative anyway. She always struck me as a Paul Martin Liberal.
The Senate appointment/Cabinet Minster issue is less of problem for me. The ability to do such work has always been that of the PM and Harper specifically stated that he might use such a Senate/Cabinet Minster move to ensure Quebec representation. For me, the test of this move will be if the new Public Works minister refuses to run in the next available Montreal by-election or the next general election. He should resign otherwise.
All in all, the cabinet looks like a patch work on compromises. “Big Cities” are now in, Quebec is present, the West is represented (though in a smaller capacity than they originally hoped), Ontario is there and the Atlantic region as well.
For Quebec representation he had 10 duly elected members to choose from, why didn’t he just pick one of those?
As to his Big City representation, I might buy this if he had done the same thing to/for the biggest city in Canada, however he did not. It sounds to me like cronyism and hypocrisy in one fell swoop in one day.
I agree the Emerson thing smells really, really bad, and even if Emerson had the best of intentions is was unwise for Harper to appoint him to cabinet, and putting him ahead of Diane Ablonczy is, well, inexplicable.
As to the Michael Fortier issue how is it “dirty and underhanded”? Who’s getting screwed in this? Nobody. Yes, Harper has campaigned for Senate reform; the fact is, however, that he’s got to be Prime Minister of the Canada that actually exists. Until the Senate IS reformed, it’s a House of Parliament and Harper must govern accordingly. Appointing Fortier seems perfectly reasonable to me.
BrainGlutton, what does this have to do with proportional representation? And you can find the Conservative platform on the web site, at www.conservative.ca.
What “Big City” perspective, exactly, can Toronto representation bring to the table that Montreal and Vancouver cabinet ministers can’t? I’m guessing they looked at the Toronto reaction to their campaign and their win and opted to not waste their time trying to win over voters there.
The Montreal move is clever in that part of the conservative push into Quebec was “Why are you voting for people with no power?” Why vote for a protest party that’ll never run government (the irony, it burns!). Quebecers are well versed in the value of power in politics. Place a Montreal representative into cabinet and suddenly Montreal is at the table making it easier for the Conservatives to expand their base in Quebec which is critical for electoral success.
The Vancouver move…eh. I dislike it the method but again it brings in a major city, a focus on the Olympics (BC tourism) and Pacific Rim trade expansion. Those makes it a not wildly stupid move.
The Vancouver move…eh
omigod…
I had no idea that you have a writen “eh” …too cool for school…
What?
He thinks you wrote out the stereotypical Canadian use of “eh?” at the end of a sentence. “Tim Hortons sure has good coffee, eh?”.
alaric, that use of ‘eh’ was the equivilent to “meh”, not the phonic “eh?”.
At least Emerson will help counter that Finance Minister who wants to put homeless people in jail for their own good.
I find the appointment of Fortier dirty because of the campaign recently run and the few years of rhetoric that we have heard from the Conservative party. Senate reform was not a major item of the platform, but neither was it a minor item. It was one of the ways the Conservative party used to differentiate themselves from the Liberal party. I also think its dirty to have a cabinet minister who never has to face the opposition in the Question period. Now I know they can question hin publicly and through the media, however we have a question period for a reason. That reason is because you can’t just say no comment, you can’t claim your words were misquoted and everything is on the record.
I find it somewhat underhanded because we just had an election It seems to be a backdoor method to get someone power. If Fortier was such a good candidate and deserves this cabinet post, how come he couldn’t face the voters and allow them to decide how impressive he was?
As to your 'who does this hurt?" Well nobody I suppose, but I don’t see the relevance and hope that isn’t how you decide what political moves upset you. Who was hurt by sponsorship? Who was hurt by the gun registry? Who is hurt by Dingwall recieving a golden handshake? Well nobody, but the moves still smell.
Toronto is the largest city in Canada. It is the headquarters of major Canadian finance. Toronto is not Montreal is not Vancouver. They all have different problems, and Toronto’s are by definition larger in scale. I would also say that Toronto is more multi-cultural then the other 2 cities, and has problems unique to it. As to your second point about Toronto, well then the Conservatives are dumb as shit. There are what? 22-25 seats in Toronto? I can’t exactly remember and my google-fu is failing me. However lets say there is 22. That is 14% of the riding in Canada. I am not saying that they NEED Toronto, but brushing it off this way is almost like saying we will run in just 294 ridings. Not the smartest moves for a party that desperately wants a Majority.
As well it isn’t like its difficult to just appoint some crony to the Senate and then give him a Cabinet post. The amount of Cabinet posts is completely up to the PM. He could have done the exact same thing as he did in Montreal, and maybe, just maybe he would start convincing the southern Ontarions that he isn’t a monster.
I never said these were stupid moves, nor do I necessarily think they are. I understand why he did it. He thinks ONT may be a lost cause, at least Toronto, so fuck 'em, lets concentrate on getting the english bastion that is Montreal, rural Quebec and the Western provinces, much like Mulroney did. Nor do I think it is surprising that they accepted the defection, and in fact rewarded it. IMO it is something of a “HA! We can do it to” to the Liberals.
What annoys me is the hypocrisy of these actions, the quotes that have been said, and the quotes that were said before these actions. Hypocrisy annoys me to no end. I don’t consider the Liberals hypocrites, just liars. I can see how actions like these contribute greatly to voter despondance, and lack of voter turnout.
“Why should I vote? The guy I vote for will do whatever the hell he pleases anyway”
“Why should I vote? They never do what they say anyway”
“Why shoud I vote? They can just put whomever they please in power anyway”
Not to be overly dramatic, but if people don’t give a shit democracy dies.
Now you’ve got me wondering what you’re like when you’re trying to be overly dramatic.
lol, good one. I knew I shouldn’t have written that last line.
“Why should I vote? The guy I vote for will do whatever the hell he pleases anyway”
no no no–that’s our problem down here.
I’m a little disappointed…
Still, what the fuck is “meh?”
Hey I thought you said it was cool that there was Canadians to argue about their politics on this board. No Bush hijacks!
Meh is pretty much what it sounds like. Say it aloud and you know its meaning.
Ah, you’re special. I see now. Thankfully, your gracious concession to Montreal (organized crime, infrastructure issues, language tension) and Vancouver (immigration, drug issues, environmental encroachments) that while they too have issues, yours are bigger and so more important is crucial in bridging the regional divides in this country. 
Toronto is out of the power block until the next election. Somehow I’m sure you’ll muddle through. Especially considering that it is the major financial, media and population centre of the country. Don’t forget that Toronto municiple crime became a national election issue.
But lets put that aside and say that 2 of the 3 cities were going to be brought into cabinet. Which ones would you go for and how would you do it?
Montreal
Key to picking up more seats in Quebec and keeping the Bloc on the defensive. They have no members from the Montreal region if I remember right. You could see about a Liberal crossing the floor, but given that Quebecers consider the Liberal party about as appealing a week old fish, not so wise. Why not a Senate appointment then cabinet minister tagged to run in the next election?
And let’s face it; a general election is coming before any by-elections are available, unless a Liberal or Bloc member wishes to stand for re-election.
Vancouver
Needed to address Western aspirations for cabinet representation. Links to APAC region for trade and slightly friendlier to Conservative re-election hopes. Can you pull 2 senate->cabinet moves in a row? Not really, but you can pull in a Liberal.
I will say that I eagerly look forward to when the people of Emerson’s riding vote next election and punt him out on his ear.
Toronto
Needed to quiet the media about lack of cabinet representation of the big cities. Strongly Liberal/NDP. The cabinet already has members from Ontario (Ottawa MPs for example) and the Toronto region is surrounded by some riding that went conservative. If you do drop a member in from Toronto it can only be through a cross over (since you can probably only swing 1 senate appointment). Maybe there was no one opportunistic enough in Toronto.
I’d guess if there had only been 1 political move to get “Big City” representation and it had been from Toronto this jaw wagging would never have happened.
Um, guys, weren’t you all saying just a week or so ago that Harper was going to have to govern from the middle, and reach out to members of the other parties in order to run a minority government? Didn’t that include his having to include representation from non-Tory constituencies (the majority) so he’d be seen as the PM of *all * of Canada?
I must be missing something - from the descriptions here it looks like that’s pretty much what he just did. What does this po’ igner’nt Yank not get?
Right after thumbing our noses at the Americans, bitching moaning and complaining are national pastimes.
Do you think Emerson will run in the same riding next election? If the Tories want to keep him it may be wiser to parachute him into a safe riding. Not that I think it is ethical, he should stand up to face the people he screwed.