There are charities-Catholic priests would probably be willing to help a devout Catholic obtain the funeral of his or her wishes. My dad’s a funeral director-he can advise the family of cost cutting, payment plans, etc. The point isn’t about the money, and not being ABLE to do so, it’s about deliberately ignoring someone’s last wishes, which you PROMISED to fulfill, simply because it’s not convenient to you. That’s wrong.
Yes. But this fact seems a lot less damning when you hear that the Schindlers (Terri’s parents) encouraged him to “move on” with his life and to date other people. You see, before they realized that it might mean Terri wouldn’t be kept alive forever, they seemed to accept that she wasn’t coming back and was in a PVS.
Michael and Terri are no longer equals in the partnership of marriage. Michael is acting out his responsibilities as husband by carrying out Terri’s wishes, meanwhile Terri is incapable of being any kind of wife to him. Perhaps you think he should be making love to her and taking her for long drives in the country, but I think that would be grotesque.
Michael is entitled to companionship and love, as much as any other widower.
I actually thought he raised some decent points that at least deserved addressing, including the apparent anticipation of pain, repeated leg movements, and whether there is really any consistency to her dememour/personality changing when someone she knows enters the room (though, given that most of these same people admit that she’s probably near blind, it must all be voice based).
And rightly so. PVS basically implies that your high brain functions are damaged. But obviously, because they consist of such complex functional connections, there are many many ways for them to be damaged to an extent that causes PVS. So there cannot be any possible single one sort or location of damage that leads to the condition.
And that’s part of the thing that the “more test!” people are relying on here: the idea that since there is no particular CT that would prove PVS, her CT isn’t sufficient: we need an MRI! Or a PET scan! What they don’t mention is that those tests wouldn’t be sufficient either. And, in fact, they are mostly moot, because Terri’s brain damage is far more extensive than that. Whereas a sufferer of PVS might have fine damage you could see better on an MRI, Terri’s problem isn’t small areas of damage that disable her higher functions, it’s large sections of her brain completely missing or squished out of the way by fluid.
I’ve heard RUMORS that her EEG shows little to no cortical activity at all no matter what the stimulus (making it pointless to try and measure whether it is higher or lower for particular stimuli). But I can’t substantiate it, and it would probably be confidential info that cannot be confirmed. But if true, that might explain why the doctors who have dealt with her full record have been so convinced, and those that simply visit her have doubts.
Judge Greer will rule on a new hearing based on Dr. Cheshire’s testimony by noon tomorrow.
Whoa, that’s not what I meant when I responded to Shayna’s post. She said that Michael was honoring his marriage vows by carrying out Terri’s wishes.
Before I asked Shayna why Michael is allowed (or compelled) to honor some vows (keep your promises) but not others (cleave only unto your wife), I wanted to know for sure if what I had heard about his other family was true.
I have no problem with Michael moving on.
Please define “cleave”.
regards,
widdley
Cleave? Well, the word was in my marriage vows, but then I’m an old fart. 
It’s a promise to be faithful to your spouse.
Before someone jumps on me because I don’t know what Terri and Michael’s wedding vows were, I think a promise of fidelity is pretty standard.
In this context, it means “be attached to.”
It seems a bit counterintuitive, since the opposite meaning is much more common.
To understand why it can mean both, consider the cleft of a tree. It’s simultaneously a point of joining and separation.
So are the words “love, honor, and cherish”, Auntie. I can think of no man who would have stood by his wife for 15 years in the face of such strong opposition as has Michael Schiavo. Believe me when I tell you that up until about 3 weeks ago, I held the same perspectives and raised the same issues as you have here.
regards,
widdley
What I meant was that it is physically impossible for Michael to keep those particular vows. As a wife, Terri is dead, and so Michael regains his right to “cleave” onto another woman.
Are her parents and sister absolutely certain she is not horribly suffering, if not physically, perhaps morally ?
Thanks Wile E, that’s what I expected. Just another example of politicians (of all stripes) loooking lik ethey care all in an effort to pander to hoped-for voters.
If she lacks the capacity for physical suffering, I think it’s safe to say that she’s not suffering morally.
Robin
If she does come back, I hope she bites her parents brains out and then puts the parents on a feeding tube for fifteen years.
I don’t post often (practically never) but this case has sickened me so much I felt I would brave the fray.
I have read all 11 odd pages of this thread (and the links); I’m convinced that the poor woman is PVS and ain’t coming back. I’ve tried to have compassion for the Schindlers but I just can’t … I can buy (almost) the idea that they are delusion and really do believe that she is aware but Jebus Christ; it’s been 15 years! Why a friend, priest, therapist, medical professional, random sane person didn’t take them to one side about 14 years ago and have a quiet word (i.e. when it might have done some good) is beyond me.
There have been a few people asking why a husband should have more rights than parents; people have answered this question extremely well but I just thought that I would share some personal experience … about 5 years ago my now husband and I decided to get married precisely because we didn’t feel we could trust our parents to carry out our final wishes or provide us with the kind of care we would have wished for if we were comatose, PVS or whatever. My husband had been through a period of illness and his mother, a devout Roman Catholic, had persistently over-ruled his and my wishes as equally devout non-believers (if that’s possible!) and demanded priests be at his bedside etc. I, of course, could nothing as I was ‘just’ his girlfriend and he was in intensive care … And this kind of behaviour, whilst wildly disrespectful of a son’s beliefs, is trivial in comparison to whether or not he would have wanted to persist in a PVS.
I know what my husbands wishes are, and he knows mine and unless we divorce that’s just the way it is. I don’t know if I would have the strength to do for my husband what Michael has done for Terri but I hope so; as far as I can see the man is as close to being a saint as I can imagine.
Just my 0.2c
It’s my understanding that Terri cannot have an MRI because there is some sort of metal in her skull? Also, that an MRI would not show anything definitive, that a CAT scan is more helpful in this matter, and that the CAT scan shows Terri’s brain is mush.
When she dies she will be a martyr for the Right to Life crowd. She will never rest in peace.
I am laughing as I type! Thanks for the comic relief. I have been at work–man, you all type/post fast! 3 more pages in 24 hours.
I don’t really have anything to add re: her care etc. This has all become so bizarre, that it beggars understanding.
Didn’t realize that I typed “funderal” instead of funeral. Seriously–I cannot see MS and the Schindler’s coming together over the grave. And that is truly tragic, because they all loved Terri. I’ll hazard a guess that she didn’t want any of this to happen.
I also don’t see this(oh, how I wish I did!) as a lose for the conservatives–they get to be all high and mighty and say ''well, we really tried to celebrate a culture of life here, and just look at those nasty Democrats and activist judges! Why, when you’re on a breating machine–they’ll pull a Kervorkian on you, too!"
And for the simple minded, to whom following the legal principles is just too much (aka most of America)–they will shake their heads in fear and wonder and vote GOP.
Speaking of evil people etc–anyone else have vague jokes forming on the edges of their minds re: Schindler’s and Schindle’s List etc–I swear there is joke there, it just won’t surface!
The neurologist at work is practically foaming at the mouth–as is every staff nurse and medical person I ran into yesterday. It is beyond comprehension at this point.
And I am starting to get ticked re: the cost of all this. How many cases are being delayed etc so that the courts ahve to deal with this shit? It’s been decided, definitively and then some–they should be barred from future cases (can that be done?).
[QUOTE=eleanorigby
The neurologist at work is practically foaming at the mouth–as is every staff nurse and medical person I ran into yesterday. It is beyond comprehension at this point.
[/QUOTE]
But but but…the Nobel prize nominated neurologist saw the videotapes! The nurses saw Terri respond and appear shaken and clammy after Michael left her! Your co-workers aren’t looking at the evidence the right way!
:rolleyes: The single-minded bias and refusal to even entertain the other side’s views is unbelievable. And the visciousness and hatred directed toward Michael…I’m starting to fear for his life.
Nice delurk! 