:smack:
No current link.
Your posts seem to imply a situation where as soon as the wife was gone he rushed out and found a new woman. I hate to keep repeating what has previously been said, but we are talking fifteen years now.
I apologise if this is not the case, but the impression I am getting is that you are basing a lot of your argument on the belief that the husband is somehow lying about his wife’s wishes. If we assume, hypethetically for now, that he is telling the truth, and she did make her wishes clear to him, surely going against her wishes would be the “unfaithful” thing to do? In this case, I cannot see how one could justify such a blatant disregard of one’s spouses wishes.
You give the impression that you really hate this guy. Your posts come across as character assasinations a large amount of the time. I hope that is not the case, but it certainly seems that way. Can you not even take into the account the fact that he may not be lying about what his wife said? Or would that be too inconvenient to your argument?
I love how everyone who’s backing the right of Michael Schiavo to pull the plug on his wife thinks he’s doing so out of care for her.
It’s funny how everyone seems to be glossing over some very crucial facts about his involvement in this whole thing though:
-
After Terri’s initial ‘accident’ that caused her to be hospitalized, Michael was awarded a great deal of money in a settlement with the stipulation that the money be used for Terri’s rehabilitation. He testified in court of his intentions to go to nursing school and become qualified to care for his wife at home. At no time during this entire process did he mention Terri’s wish not to be kept alive artificially.
-
After the money was awarded, he instead locked his wife away in hopsice care and refused to allow any sort of rehabilitation. In the fifteen years since her collapse, Terri has not been allowed the rehabilitation that was a stipulation of being awarded money for care in the first place. Her husband has used up all of this settlement money in the courts, fighting to have her killed.
-
Nurses and other employees of the hopsice center where Terri has been kept have signed affadavits claiming Michael Schiavo refused to allow any sort of rehabilitation of his wife. Other claims in these affadavits include that he would not allow them to treat her for colds or infections, would not allow nurses to attempt to speak or interact with Terri, and would not even allow them to place a towel in her hand to keep her fingernails from digging into her palm. One former caregiver even states that Michael was fixated on Terri’s death, and quoted him as having said “When is that bitch gonna die?”
-
A Bone scan performed after her collapse has indicated that Terri received serious injuries and broken bones, not attributable to the collapse itself, that cannot be explained. Michael Schiavo has not allowed doctors to investigate these injuries further.
Terri is not in a vegetative state. She responds to stimulus, she tries to speak, and she is definitely aware to some extent of her surroundings. Now, I have very little doubt that at this stage in the game there’s little that can be done to rehabilitate her, but if there had been ANY attempt whatsoever at any point after her collapse then we likely would not be where we are today with this case.
Her husband has, from square one repeatedly denied any attempt to care for her or rehabilitate her. Someone stated that the doctors who side with the family cannot be counted as credible because they have not had contact with Terri. Well, of course not - her husband has not allowed them to.
Terri’s family has offered to Michael to cover the full costs of caring for Terri, along with an outright bribe, as has been mentioned before. Michael refused - not because he is respecting his wife’s wishes, but because he wants her out of the picture for good.
Wow. You are displaying such a willful disregard of the facts that I can only assume you are simply not interested in the facts. Ignorance would be a step up for you.
Please, I’d love to be proven wrong about her husband’s involvement, really. I would love some proof that he is doing this because it’s in her best interests. I just haven’t seen it yet. 
And thanks for the insult, I hope you feel better about yourself now that you’ve attacked me for no reason.
If she can do this without a cerebreal cortex, then Randi may well end up financing her care for a few years.
Are you claiming that she does, in fact, have a brain that’s not missing the important bits? This is slightly more reasonable (in that a conspiracy is more probable than random brainstem neurological noise being interpreted as consciousness, but not by much). However, I’d still like a citation or two.
Last year, my father went in for brain surgery. They discovered and partially removed a cancerous tumor. Post operative, he was unable to speak or swallow on his own, the cancer was not operable. He tried to take the tubes and stuff out of himself, so he was tied to his bed. His next of kin (my siblings and I) advised the physician that he would have refused chemo for the brain tumor, and that he most definately would not want to be kept alive on tubes.
thankfully, even though this happened in Florida, the doctors listened. We were able to get the tubes removed and he settled into a restive state. I stayed w/him at the hospice. This talk of “starving to death” evokes images of starving children in the third world, with large sad eyes. but that was not the experience I had.
I loved my father dearly. and I sat by his bedside the entire time from when the tubes were removed til he took his last breath. it was peaceful. He woke from time to time, I talked to him, he held my hand for a time. (He had more brain activity than poor Terry does). Any pain he had was from the cancer/surgery and was taken care of by medication.
No one wishes to watch a loved one die. I’ve been at two death beds. While I mourned his passing, this was a peaceful and loving thing to do. I looked at it then (and still) as the last gift I could give him - the ability to die with dignity surrounded by people who loved him.
I am grateful that no fucking legislator/governor from Florida made any attempt to deny my right as next of kin.
I posted in the other thread about this, but am copying some of it here.
There is so much ignorance here! And so much wilful obstinance. I am an RN, I work in ICU and stepdown(adult). I don’t see PVS state every day (I do see it several times a year) but I deal with end of life issues everyday at work.
What we find (as HCP) is that the significant others involved vary in their place in the acceptance of the patient’s condition. Some “get it” right away and see that the Golden Rule applies here–they will not do what they would not want done to them etc. Some keep seeking for a different answer and become resigned when educated on PVS. Still others refuse to accept any info that does not jive with their preconceived notions–but usually, as the days turn to weeks, and the weeks to months, they also gradually accept reality.
And then there are the Schindler’s. They are in a class by themselves and I hope there is a special place in hell for them. Their refusal to accept reality points to a mental pathology(though, I’m no psychiatrist). That they can manage to convince others of this does not tell me that they may have a case–it tells me that people are woefully uneducated and incredibly mis-informed about coma. PVS, and other end of life issues. This ignorance can be eliminated–and I hope that is the one good thing to come out of this.
As to the Michael doesn’t let them brush her teeth–see, the dentist had to pull some–this is bullshit.
I have no idea what MS did or did not do. I DO know that unless scrupulous mouth care is given at least every 2 hours, round the clock to someone like Terri, that tooth decay and abcesses will occur. She is unable to swallow her own secretions (saliva) and she mouth breathes–both of these lead to pooling of saliva in the back of the throat, combined with the drying out of mucus membranes of the mouth–which equals a perfect breeding ground for all manner of bacteria. This is a common way for people to die–they acquire a pnuemonia from germs in the mouth. The germs enter the bloodstream via the minute cracks in the dried buccal mucosa (aka the lining of the mouth).
Personally, I am surprised that she has not succumbed to pneumonia by now and that points to generally excellent care on the part of her nurses, and the rest of the health care team.
IMO, I think that since PVS is so alien that alot of people liken it to deep sleep or something. Nothing could be further than the truth. Terri is GONE and has been for 15 years.
As to the comment that Michale won’t “let” the nurses talk to Terri or interact with her–this is unmitigated bullshit. It doesn’t matter what the affidavit says–there is NO WAY a nurse can adequately care for ANY pt w/o talking to them or interacting with them. If nurses are indeed going about their care w/o practicing anticipatory guidance to their pts–admin should be informed, as well as the SBON. That is not standard of care nursing–and I do not believe that that is occuring. To not talk to a pt augers such a level of neglect that TS would have been dead long since from sepsis. The family has NO control over nurses talking to pts or interacting with them–they do have control over which nurses do so.
I talk to my comatose pts at all times–I tell them I am turning them, suctioning them, washing them. I tell them what day of the week it is, what the weather is like and the Cub’s chances this season. I chatter away–ESPECIALLY to the comatose ones. One never knows what will get thru to a comatose pt–I know nurses who will sing to such pts–gospel, folk, Motlely Crue, (well maybe not), Beatles-whatever. It’s not done to excess, but attempts to stimulate are done and often.
The PVS pts get the same anticipatory guidance, but not the chit chat. Why? Partly because the patter I do is a habit and it’s almost unconscious for me to do it–I’ve been doing this for 20 years. But the one-on-one chit chat–there is NO POINT in doing so with a PVS pt. (there is also no point in doing the “I’m going to turn you on your left side now” with PVS either, but I do it out of respect for the pt and also to inform whatever visitors may be present).
But as a HCP, I recognize the difference between the two states. Coma is not the same as PVS.
XJETGIRLX said, “Terri is not in a vegetative state. She responds to stimulus, she tries to speak, and she is definitely aware to some extent of her surroundings.”
this is not true. Plain and simple. A person with her condition is unable to do any of these things. Film, though, can be edited and altered to produce magic. Please read Dr. J’s and CrazyCatLady’s (and others) excellent summation of TS’s physical condition.
Affadavit of Dr. Eytan : “it appears that Ms. Schaivo responds to certain stimuli”
Affadavit of Dr. Goldsmith : “I have observed a video of Ms. Schaivo and she appears to be responsive”
As I said before, the doctors haven’t been allowed to physically examine her. I think that’s a fair thing to happen before we can say for sure that she’s completely braindead with no hope of recovery. There are a bunch of other affadavits from doctors with similar opinions here.
wring–I am so sorry for your loss.
Your story, while sad, is what I, as a nurse, hope for all my terminal pts. And you are absolutely correct about the “starving to death”–an inflammatory, but ignorant phrase.
As the body dies, it shuts down appetite and digestion–your father felt no lack (and neither will TS), but he did feel loved and cared for by those who mattered to him.
Are we so afraid of death in this country that we must avoid it all costs?
XJETGIRLX, please provide your cite. And don’t link to the Schindler Family website. That’s hardly objective.
There is no money left. It has gone to Terri’s care. It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if Michael filed a libel (slander?) suit aganist his in-laws once this is over.
That link is to the Schindler’s Family website. It is not objective. Anyone can edit videotapes to make someone look like they’re doing something. You show me an unedited video tape and I’ll take a look at it.
I don’t know what her parents’ motivation is. My husband heard that in the four years prior to Terri’s stroke/heart attack/whatever it was, she spoke to her parents only twice. If that is true, maybe they’re operating out of guilt?
You’re quoting from doctors who were paid by Sciavo’s parents. Many, many doctors have examined her, including court appointed ones.Every expert who has not been paid by the parents has testified that Schiavo is permanently brain dead. What part of “she doesn’t have a cerbral cortex” do you people not fucking understand?
She does not, - and CANNOT - “respond” to a motherfucking thing. She has some random physical movements which were cherry-picked by the parents to try to deceive the court into thinking she had any sort of consciousness.
There is no such thing as consciousness without a cerbral cortex.
Terri Schiavo told others, not just her husband, that she didn’t want to be kept artficially alive in these circumstances.
Michael Schiavo has nothing to gain by her death.
Your linked website is propaganda garbage.
There is no moral justification for keeping Terri Schiavo’s body hooked up to machines. The attempt to do so shows a depraved lack of regard or compassion for Terri and her family and seems to be driven purely by self-righteous, religious fanatacism.
If I’m ever in a coma, I want my wife to pull the plug. Do me a favor and stay the fuck out of it, ok.
“GOP leaders step in to keep Schiavo alive”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7212079/
My God. This burns me. And I’m a GOP supporter often times.
Let the poor lady go in peace. I can’t believe all the fucking monsters that want to keep the poor lady alive. It’s fucking evil. :mad:
Well hot damn, he saw a video in which she appeared to be responsive, stop the presses.
Kind of important don’t you think?
!5 years hasn’t been enough time to determine she’s braindead?
All of whom i’m sure haven’t examined her, they’ve just seen the video.
Me too. Maybe once they wheel her in people will finally accept the fact that there is nothing there anymore.
I heard that the subpoenas may be unconstitutional, that it may be a violation of the separation of powers. Any lawyers want to weigh in?
Duffer you can beat this ‘the-husband’s-a-bum’ thing to death, but by most cites, you’re as wrong as wrong can be. He did just about everything he could for her, and now, he clearly wants what’s best for her. Sometimes, death is what’s best.
My mother went through a short but rapid decline after many surgeries, and would have ended up a LOT like Terri, were it not for my dad and I seeing to her, and making damn sure that she died as nature intended, and not hooked to some wretched mechanical device to exist in relative perpetuity.
The parents would have a convincing case, if this were a new thing. It’s a 15 year old incident. The parents aren’t caring anymore, IMO, they’re being selfish and vain, allowing their daughter to carry on in such a state.
[minirant]
As a society, we consider the euthanasia of sick animals to be humane. Animals. Yet we allow, nay, force, for some incomprehensible reason, the people at the TOP of the evolutionary ladder to drag on, attached to machines, tubes, and bags, and for what? To spend another day in the hospital? So another parade of ungrateful relatives can trudge through the room, hands full of tawdry plastic gift shop crap?
So the doctors, hospitals, drug companies and medical industry can profit? It’s bullshit. There is absolutely NO human dignity, NO sanctity in living attached to a machine without cognitive and motor processes.
And no, I don’t mean in EVERY case, just in ones like this one. [/minirant]
This is just…there are no words for this.
Poor woman. I’m not saying she’s dead, I’m not saying she’s a shell. I AM saying that she’s in PVS, and that her current state is as good as it’s going to get. We can’t ask Terri whether she wants to die, she wouldn’t understand the question, and certainly can’t respond, but I don’t think any of us would want to be in her current position.
Discontinuing nutrition and hydration is the humane and decent thing to do.
This is pdf document, of a paper given by a bio-ethicist referencing a famous British case, that of Tony Bland. It gives a very good overview of PVS and some of the ethical qustions surrounding it. It is quite balanced…many of the sites have an obvious bias.
Tony Bland was in a PVS after suffering brain damage during the Hillsborough disaster. His medical team and family approached the courts seeking permission to withdraw nutrition and hydration. They won, he died 9 days after treatment was discontinued.
Because she has no swallowing reflex. And from what DoctorJ has told us, even if it were retrained, she’d still need to be on the tube, because she would be in danger of choking-something that sounds a lot more traumatic than simply letting her die. She no longer feels pain, hunger or thirst. She’s gone.
And even worse, whatever her wishes, whatever they do, she’s become a political pawn, and that is even more disgusting! Her parents are so concerned with her “dignity”, yet they parade heavily edited videos of her drooling all over herself at the drop of a hat. Really caring, eh?
That about sums up this situation for me. I really can’t understand what anyone hopes to accomplish by maintaining the feeding tube; it seems to be more about political gains than anything else at this point. And that’s beyond sad; it’s pathetic and sickening. I wonder if all the lawmakers trying so hard to keep Terri on life support even consider her to be human.