WTF?
We’re all here trying to educate you on the facts of the case, and you’re not willing to learn?
Why are you here, then?
To prove that ignorance won’t go down without a fight; milroyj is why it’s taking longer than we thought.
I have to jump in here with “death by starvation.”
When my FIL was dying (it will be a year tomorrow, as a matter of fact) he gradually cut down what he was consuming. It wasn’t anything conscious, he just wasn’t hungry.
He was eating toast for a bit. Then he was drinking fruit and veggie smoothies. Then the size of the fruit and veggie smoothies gradually reduced until he was taking just a few sips from a child’s sippie cup.
We’re not talking about deliberately starving an otherwise healthy woman, a la Nazi concentration camp prisoners. We’re talking about a woman who has no brain left. Terri died 15 years ago. They’re just now finally allowing her body to cease as well.
And you’re absolutely certain Terri Schiavo would be comfortable with that? What psychic abilities do you possess that you, who’ve never met TS, can say what her wishes would be? The courts have weighed evidence to which you obviously remain oblivious.
Secondly, if she has no ability to experience discomfort, as all medical evidence suggests, how does keeping her on a feeding tube save her from discomfort? And how can you be sure that dying now wouldn’t provide more comfort to her than lingering on indefinitely as her body wastes away?
Hypothetically, if she did have any capacity for discomfort, as long as she remains in this condition, you have no way of knowing whether and to what extent she’s experiencing it, given the fact that she cannot communicate. Would you be happy with that?
Disclaimer: I know this is probably totally pointless, but I’d like to at least delude myself with the notion that milroyj has thought through his position and can come up with something logical to back up his emotional tyrade.
Bull-fucking-shit you’re not ignorant, son. If ignorance were pennies, you’d be a millionaire right now. Read the thread. Read the arguments. Read the goddamn citations and then come back here and tell us how repugnant we are.
Terri Schiavo died fifteen years ago, when her brain, starved for oxygen, was irreperably damaged. Her husband tried everything he could to bring her back, even planting electrodes in her brain in an attempt to stimulate tissue growth. Nothing worked. He eventually concluded that Terri would not recover and went to the courts for help in determining what her wishes would be. The courts said (based on the testimony of five witnesses), that Terri would not want to be kept alive in this condition. Knowing that Terri is gone, knowing that she would never return, her husband has set about trying to fulfill her last request. How the fuck is that repugnant, milroyj? I’d like to know.
Listen up, sparky, and listen good. There is no evidence that Michael Schiavo ever abused his wife. There is no proof that Michael Schiavo has in any way neglected his wife’s care in the last fifteen years - Hell, Terri’s never so much as had a bedsore. So this whole “Evil Michael’s going to kill his wife and you’re going to help him do it!” argument is nothing but hysterical shouting on the part of people who couldn’t be bothered to learn the nasty truth about the case. The truth is that there are no bad guys here. There are parents who cannot accept that their daughter is gone, and there is a husband struggling (against all odds) to try and fulfill his wife’s last request. That’s the truth. Stop looking for villains where there are none, and accept the fact that life is painful and messy, death is inevitable, and the living often have to make impossible choices. There is no black and white. Just gray.
I just heard an NPR reporter say that the Schindlers said today that they won’t be filing any more appeals. Praise be, if it’s true.
Incidently, has anyone yet publicly stated that they would rather live like Terri Schiavo for 15+ years than die quickly and painlessly? I just can’t imagine anyone saying to their family:
“If anything happens to me, please don’t let me die. I don’t care what you have do. Stick every tube in me that they have and just let me sit there. The only thing I ask is that you wipe the drool off my chin in the event I should end up on TV. Oh, and my favorite lipstick is L’oreal Cotton Candy Pink. Please make sure I’m wearing it every day.”
Nicely said.
There is good evidence that milroyj is in a PLLLICHYS (Persistant LA-LA-LA-I-CAN’T-HEAR-YOU State), and has been for years.
A note: Apparently, there is no major theological issue here, according, at least, to this learned expert.
http://www.ctlibrary.com/10832
The Presbyterian view on such things.
http://www.christianity.com/partner/Article_Display_Page/0,,PTID23682|CHID125044|CIID1658166,00.html
Can we pull his cable TV and internet connections then? He would have wanted it this way.
Try Free Republic, there are people over there making living wills to that effect :eek:
It’s like Millroyj world over there…
And the award for worst theme park idea goes to…Avenger!! Congratulations. You can pick up your free tickets to EuroDisney at the service desk.
milroyj is one of the best example of what they mean when they say “The Road to Hell is paved with good intentions”.
Most people look at each instance on a case by case basis, and decide whether life or death would be better. **milroyj ** seems to be one of those people who likes to choose one policy or belief, and let the belief do the thinking for them.
Why do they do this? The only conclusion I have come to is that some people can’t deal with making tough decisions. Or they are the type of person who likes to make the choice that make themselves feel better instead of the right choice.
Since most life is better than death generally, they think it’s the right decision in ALL cases. How can milroyj be wrong when he fights under the banner of “LIFE”? (imagine the word ‘life’ surrounded by angels and flowers). How can milroyj be wrong when he fights against the forces of “Death”? (Imagine death as red font on black background, with blood dripping from the letters)
There really is no point in arguing with him. He doesn’t really care if Schiavo lives in a limbo between life and death for the next 40 years, as long as he feels good about himself.
Nope, but I believe it’s reasonable to assume that there would be a greater rate of opting for PAS in patients whose illness was causing severe pain - after all, all the patients who did choose PAS certainly had the option of simply refusing food, so they must all have preferred PAS for some reason. Basically, I don’t think the study shows much (after all, surveying nurses for their perceptions of a patient’s pain isn’t exactly the most direct method), and what it does show isn’t relevant to the case of a patient in a PVS, since the patients studied were (I infer from the language) conscious and relatively lucid.
And like I said, none of this detracts from the broader point which is that Terri Schiavo is in no danger whatsoever of suffering from withdrawal of sustenance. I just don’t think it’s a very illuminating study.
For Doctor J, Diogenes the Cynic, Eleanor Rigby or whomever else may know…
I’m engaged in discussion regarding TS and have reached a point where I don’t have an answer. My friend asks me to cite the EEG results on TS or who performed the EEG and I can’t find a reputable source to cite. I do recall this being mentioned many times in this now 900+ thread.
IIRC, the results were “flat” and showed no “cortical activity”. Would it be asking too much for you to supply a link for me? Any additional comments would be much appreciated.
regards,
widdley
This site claims that the flat EEG is being reported in the New England Journal of medicine.
Hope this helps out.
This is a pdf, but it mentions the flat EEG: http://content.nejm.org/cgi/reprint/NEJMp058062v1.pdf
My dad’s like that. He’s terrified of death. My mum’s said that she doens’t want him having any kind of a say if she winds up having to have someone make that decision for her!