They have pretty much determined that the portion of the brain that receives those signals is gone and or liquified. That kind of thing is pretty apparent on a catscan.
She’s got less consciousness or comprehension than a pet. There isn’t even a proper ‘stimulus/response’ function going on. Would you allow your dog, or cat, or any other animal to continue on in this state? Why do we value this ‘life’ so much?? Because it’s ‘human’? Listen, what made it HUMAN is gone. Left. Left at least seven years ago, it seems. I really just don’t understand how someone could argue that she should be left ‘alive’ as long as there’s a heartbeat - is the forced flow of blood through human veins all it takes for you to call someone a person?
You’ve clearly got the ability to navigate not only your life, but the internet, and a message board. I’m not unfamiliar with the challenges disabled people have to deal with - but you are ALIVE, you can communicate, you clearly have mental capacity, why in the world would you compare yourself to Terry who, for all intents and purposes IS a vegetable - she’s got the reactions and ‘brain’ of one, at this point.
Why in the world would you seek to keep that ‘person’ anchored to this existance, ESPECIALLY if (as it seems to be for the parents) you believe that when she dies, she’ll go to a far far greater place than this moral coil has to offer her??
My husband requested of me that I make all decisions and only inform his family once everything was over. We both fear that they would be the next Schindlers.
And it’s horrible we even have to discuss such things for fear of ending up in court.
I just wanted to add that in no way would I consider this a ‘slippery slope’ to threaten the lives of those disabled, you or anyone else. There’s quite CLEARLY a line between people who are disabled, people who are in a coma, and people who have been in a persistant, constant, and untreatable vegetative state.
This is not an arguement about ‘should we kill off the disabled’, but a fierce struggle between those who believe that a still beating heart is greater than an individual’s right to choose their death with dignity.
If there’s one thing I learned Growing Up Catholic, it’s that Roman Catholicism has something of a morbid streak. So I’m not surprised.
Given that her family still denies she had an eating disorder it’s no wonder they’re in denial about her wishes. It makes me wonder what kind of parents they were-perhaps very controlling. No wonder she had such problems when she was alive. Poor girl.
:smack: posted before I was done.
I would ask that those who accuse him of dishonorable motivation consider this: If he were a loving husband and would not let anything interfere with his promise to the woman he loved; not hugh sums of money, not press camped in his yard or investigators following him… if he’d sacrifice FIFTEEN FUCKING YEARS of his life for the crap he’s been through… how would it look different than it does right now. Wouldn’t a lesser man, a less honorable man, a less dedicated husband take the easy way out YEARS AGO and go on to live his life with some degree of normalise?
If he were all these things, how would it be different?
A quick note on the OP. We do love life in Florida. Just not ALL life. Perhaps you’ve read of 9 year old Jennifer, murdered by a REPEAT SEX OFFENDER. Her’s yes. His, not so much. Murderers are aware of their own existance, and unfortuately, the existance of the life’s of innocents.
Guinastasia, I’m Catholic, too (albeit not a very devout one). I truly believe that Terri’s soul departed her body 15 years ago. It’s time to let her body go, too.
Ms. Schiavo isn’t handicapped. She is dead. There is a difference.
I’m very happy there are people like you in the world, and I hope those children get every advantage possible.
Ms. Schiavo is already dead. Those children are alive and severely handicapped. There is really no comparison.
Once again, none of those children are dead. No feeling person would call a living child a “rutabaga” and no thinking person would confuse a living child with someone who died 15 years ago.
Just so we’re clear, I assume those children you take care of physically possess a cerebral cortex that is at least functional to some extent. Ms. Schiavo does not. Her high brain died 15 years ago and what’s left is a corpse with a pulse. Ms. Schiavo isn’t a non-entity, she is a former entity much like my great-grandparents and George Washington. Her remains have been kept active through artificial means for a decade and a half because her parents won’t accept that fundamental fact.
Her memory lives on in her widowed husband and her parents. She, however, does not, and she deserves a proper burial at long last.
According to the latest AP story,
Of course her parents’ doctors dispute that. For one thing, not disputing it really puts a hole in their claims that she’s aware and responsive. For another thing, claiming that she would feel pain makes it easier to paint a picture of a despicable, ogrish man torturing a poor, defenseless victim of circumstance.
To ggurl- I too work for a time with severely handicapped children. They recognized me when I arrived and enjoyed our time together. They had foods they liked and some they didn’t, toys that were special, events to look forwaed to. We talked or communicated in one form or another and there was happiness and enjoyment in life. I did, and would still do, anything to make the life they have as long and enjoyable as possible. This is not Terry. This is not any form of life… only a nighmare existance. Just because science has made it possible does not mean it should be forced to continue.
Are you saying Terri is aware somehow she is stuck in her body or, if she has died, how come she can still breathe?
[hijack] thank you for the kind words. I wasn’t sure anyone actually reads my posts! [/end hijack]
To me, interacting with even severly handicapped kids is so different from PVS that it boggles my mind that the two could be equated.
Noone here,and I believe in Michael’s camp, is advocating anything like that.
But if I am found to be brain dead–please someone pull the plug and give my organs, if possible, to others.
As I have said elsewhere on the board, the part of your brain that controls your breathing is a different part from the one that controls your emotions, cognition and logic. Terri’s “higher” brain function - the ones that made Terri Terri, a person with thoughts and feelings, is dead.
She now has the same mental capabilities as a meadow vole - actually, less, since she cannot even feed herself.
Oy. Terri is no longer aware that she has a body. She has no awareness of heat/cold/pain/touch.
She is brain dead–only the most primitive reflexes from the oldest parts of our brain function. This allows her to breathe and her heart to beat (and the heart also has a neat quality called “automaticity” which means that the muscle cells self-fire–they don’t need to be told to do so by the brain. What kills this feature is lack of oxygen). She is a young woman, who did abuse her body but even so–she has a young heart.
She cannot swallow; she cannot pee/poop voluntarily. She has a catheter to drain her bladder (increases risk of UTI and kidney infections) and she is digitally stimulated to defecate (as far as I know). She has no voluntary movement-despite the videos to the contrary–**Dr. J ** would know better, but I believe even her eye blink is impaired. Nurses and physical therapists and respiratory therapists perform the acts for Terri that you don’t even give a thought to -because she cannot and indeed has no awareness of.
So, no she is not dead–she exists in a world suspended between death and life–a true physical limbo–some would even say purgatory. Frankly, IMO, she has done her time and should be allowed to be at peace.
I don’t even consider myself a Catholic, well, not a religious one. I still have that upbringing though.
Good Egg, technically, she’s still alive, but she is no longer conscious. It’s just her reflexes that work-the part of her brain that controls awareness is gone. It’s almost as if she were a robot. Terri is gone.
My eternal fault.
Thanks for the info. Its almost scary that science can do this, and for what purpose?
This is a definitional issue and a philosophical one, I suppose, but to me, she died 15 years ago when her cerebral cortex (the high brain, the physical seat of the personality, memories, and all conscious thought) shut down and could not be revived. As far as I’m concerned, once the high brain cannot be revived what’s left is the equivalent of a corpse: It has no personality or memories or even sensation and is no longer human in any way that counts. It’s a dead person that happens to have a pulse and some other autonomic reflexes left.
If you want to debate with me on this, I’m more than willing. But before you do, take the time to do a bit of research into the difference between a persistent vegetative state and a coma.