The reason I make such a stink about this is because often times presuppers will erect a strawman version of atheism in an attempt to say that Christianity is more rational then atheism. They will erect this ‘atheist’ worldview that is supposed to encompass all atheists. More often then not they just misrepresent materialists.
The point is that atheism isn’t a worldview. It’s a negative statement about a belief. You can’t derive morality, epistemics, etc from atheism.
I think you’re thinking of athiests.
Adding my take as a believer. This is incorrect. Atheism may be one small part of someone’s worldview but it does not constitute a worldview by itself. From someone declaring their atheism you cannot infer anything about their morals , ethics, family structure, or philosophy unless you do so out of ignorance.
It’s interesting to note that the same holds true for god belief or even Christianity specifically.
I think i’m with cosmosdan on this one. I don’t think there’s anyone for whom atheism constitutes their entire world view. The same is true for religious people, but while their religion may have a very large prescence in their worldview, my lack of faith in gods doesn’t really play a big part in my view of the world. Nevertheless, it does play a part, in that it means I won’t have god-based thoughts or ideas (or, at least, I’ll think I don’t 
).
For some believers I think their faith plays a big role in their worldview for others not so much. Even for those that it does I’ve noticed there is no consistency. What’s interesting to me is noticing that someone may say something that denotes god belief , or their Christianity, and I still know nothing about what kind of person they are. I can’t safely assume that god belief or Christianity means they are honest or kind, or friendly, or tolerant, or any of the qualities we’d like to associate with the teachings of Jesus. I still have to see them in action and interact with them as humans to know what kind of people they are and what, if anything, their belief means to them. Funny…ain’t it?
Naw. Just proving myself correct. :smack:
Hmmm…waitta a minute.
I’ve been…whoooshed!
Can’t afford many of those with my bald pate.
And yes, cosmosdan has it exactly right, here.
I cannot for the life of me think of any plausible reason I would care about what other people believe about the divine or lack thereof. Even if they choose to interfere with my life on the basis of that belief, the problem is not the belief, it’s the being a jerk. And it’s my experience that other theists are more likely to try to use their beliefs to justify being a jerk than atheists.
I evaluate my paradigm on the basis of whether it is satisfying, consistent with my experience, useful, and beautiful; none of this considers other people’s paradigms relevant.
Having more time to think about it, once one believes there is a ‘God’ the next step it to find out what God is. Now this is not true for all, using a biblical example Paul (Saul) had Jesus come to him and make a personal appearance, so you pretty much know what ‘god’ to follow if that ‘god’ actually comes to you.
Surely if one believes in a god, they already must have some idea of what that god is? You need at least some characteristics in order to believe something.
No you don’t. You’ve just gotta have faith.
Blind faith.
Well if you met Jesus then you would have some idea, but if you just knew there was a creator of this creation and when to find him then not really.
Would it be against SDMB TOS to say get away Satan to you?
Anyway we had this discussion before, what is blind faith? If God proved Himself to my satisfaction is that accepting it on blind faith? It is because I can’t prove it to you that is it blind?
I admit that God can not be proved scientifically, but can show you the scripture that says that God will intentionally frustrate such efforts, but God can be known on a personal level. Science is the study of creation, not the Creator.
I’ll ask you the same question I asked ITR Champion. As a fallible human being, how can you be sure that the presence you have felt is God? Could you not be mistaken?
Over a billion Muslims do not accept Jesus as their savior. According to Christian teaching the only way to know God is through Jesus. Yet many Muslims will speak about their relationship with God as firmly as you do. Many believe so strongly they are willing to die for their faith. Are they all mistaken? Are they listening to Satan, rather than to God?
I have to admit this it more to the point the accepting God on blind faith. When one feels the presents of God it is a very humbling experience, one feels so wretched in such a light. It’s a feeling that this has to be God. But then again, when one know the deception of Satanic forces one must ask the question if this too is a deception, to which I really have no answer other then nothing higher seems possible, and nothing higher has made itself known to me.
Could be. It seems clear to me that people do confuse powerful emotion with the Holy Spirit. Sit in on a few Charismatic or Pentecostal services and see.
But here you are confusing the interpretation of the experience with the experience itself. The presence of god is not doctrine or dogma but the experience is interpreted through the filter of our culture and those around us.
IMHO it would be wise for believers to understand this instead of blindly accepting what they are told by religious leaders as absolute. You can follow a discipline or religion that suits you without insisting everyone else has to be wrong. You can worship in your own way without having to believe anyone who does it differently must be worshiping Satan.
Get your story straight, okay? You’re the one saying theists agree on everything, being the set of people who just believe in a god, and not much else about him. Your set won’t be likely to criticize. My set - more inclusive, will in part.
And people like lekatt, who don’t belong to a church, have some beliefs about what god is, and thus disagree with other theists. You don’t have to be in a church to have opinions about the characteristics of god.
Er, but you’ve pointed out characteristics right there. Being the creator of the universe, and some knowledge about his location or a place where he will reveal himself. Now, that’s not at “he’s sweetness and light, his name is Jim” level of characteristics, but they’re certainly points of knowledge.
Even if your only experience of a god is that you “feel” its existence, then you at least can tell (assuming you’re right) what emotion you feel from it, that it wants to be felt, etc.
Yes in that respect your right, but even if one person experienced this lovie-dovie type of God, and another person experienced a vengeful type of God, if they are the same ‘god’ or not both will be classified as a theist.
I don’t think JThunder has ever once said that theists agree on everything.
Kancibird…It does no good to use Scripture as an argument because scripture is not the work of God, but writings of human beings,the same goes for knowing Jesus, one only hears about Jesus from other human beings and for people who do not believe in a Ressurection there is no way of knowing about jesus except for some humans writings,since that was over 2,000 years one cannot argue anything about Jesus except by faith.
monavis