Perfect Blue
Birdy The Mighty: Decode (especially the second series; fantastic.)
Baccano!
athelas, I second infinitii’s recommendation for Code Geass.
All these are on Wikipedia.
Exactly. I love animation and I made a living as an animator for many years. 90% of my objections to anime are stylistic and technical ones - flaws I see even in works that are touted as the best anime can offer, like Myazaki. In addition to your complaints, let me add:
Crap frame rates
35mm film works at 24 frames per second. To my knowledge, only one full-length hand-animated film to date has had every single frame drawn - Who Framed Roger Rabbit. They had to in order to work with the filmed actors. I suspect other appearances like Gene Kelly’s dance with Tom in Anchors Aweigh was also 24 fps. Classic animation is usually done by animating every other frame and photographing each frame onto the film twice. This is called “animating on the twos”.
But anime, even the most well-respected and praised anime, is done at much lower frame rates. I’ve seen one that a poster here was holding up as an example of superior animation where a character turned, and the whole turn was only three drawings, cross-fading from one to the other over the course of a second!
Awful kinematics
The mark of a good animator is an understanding of physics and biology. They study how people and animals move so that, even when they exaggerate their movements for comic effect, it is based on reality. But anime characters generally have bad physical movement, walking stiffly. I call it the “pickle up the butt” syndrome.
One could say I am just looking at these things technically, that if I wasn’t knowledgeable about the techniques I wouldn’t see it. But I noticed bad animation when I was a child and rejected it. I loathed Scooby Doo and other programs like that, but loved animation from the 30s and 40s.
rubs chin in contemplation
I don’t even pretend to know what good animation is. For me, it’s merely that a lot of anime tells stories that don’t get told by Western media. There’s people who will watch a favorite movie on a 5th generation VHS tape hooked up to a black-and-white TV because they love it so much - that’s how I feel. That’s what I’m trying to get across in this thread too - there’s stories people don’t see because they automatically dismiss the medium.
Japanese OVA (original video animations) tend to have the highest quality animation because they have short runs and are thrown the largest budgets, like HBO compared to SyFy. I mentioned Record of Lodoss War above, and the quality between the OVA series and the TV series is astoundingly different. Bleach is the current poster child for hideous animation because it has a constant weekly production that is rushed.
I’ve actually seen live action films directed by anime directors, and when they cannot insert the awful stylistic crap like Bambi eyes, they can tell a good story.
Katsuhito Ishii’s The Taste of Tea was great! But the technical limitations and the stylistic affectations are both so egregious that it is impossible for me to watch the film to appreciate the story.
I may research this. It sounds like something that would attract me if it were a book or horror movie.
I might watch anime if it didn’t look like anime. I really dislike that artistic style, but some of the storylines sound interesting. Does such a thing exist?
Lodoss War, Berserk and Millennium Actress especially, look interesting and watchable from the links given. (Cartoon violence doesn’t bother me a whit). If I get hooked it’s all your fault and you must feel guilty forever. I will PM all of you every day and remind you. If I remember.
Indeed, lots of the still art such as the Kaori Yuki example certainly is breathtaking as is much of the fan art I run across; IMO there’s nothing wrong with how the characters are anatomically drawn “in situ”. I can perfectly visualize the effects gaffa describes above – I’ve always thought there must be a better way to take advantage of good character design/artwork without increasing costs. But, look at the popularity of it anyway.
Okay, serving up several types of anime below, please indicate if you dig any of the samples:
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Do the bad guys have short hair and the good ones have the wild, spiky hair as a rule?
I came here to mention that. It’s basically Seinfeld with Japanese schoolgirls, there’s no actual point to the episodes, it’s all just a series of stuff that happens to the characters. It’s also goddamn hilarious.
I would suggest to you two series: Guin Saga and The Twelve Kingdoms. Guin Saga is basically Conan the Barbarian without the misogyny or the gratuitous sex, which isn’t exactly a criticism. It’s about two royal siblings on the run from the people who conquered their country and the strange and mysterious leopard-headed fighter who takes them under his wing. It’s based on a series of novels, and the author clearly knows quite a bit about European-style dynastic politics (you know, marriage alliances and whatnot). Politics in anime tends to be weirdly bloodless, by which I mean the causes and motives seem too insubstantial to deserve all the violence the characters are enacting. Not so for this series, the backstabbing and struggle for power feels more real.
I think the opening gives you a good idea of what the series feels like. I like how you can’t tell who the bad guys are, although there aren’t really evil people in the series per se – it’s all just politics and who’s on what side. Don’t ask me why the titles are backwards in this video, though.
Now, as for The Twelve Kingdoms, it’s basically The Chronicles of Narnia mixed with Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon: a Japanese schoolgirl and two friends are drawn into a portal which transports them to a wu shu fantasy world filled with strange creatures and magic. It’s based on a series of novels as well, I think half of which have been translated. This fan trailer does a fairly good job of showing the epic scope of the series, though the music isn’t from it. The main character is kind of whiny and homesick for the first three episodes, which is probably realistic for a proper Japanese schoolgirl from the late 80s who’s been dropped into fairyland, but it can get annoying. What’s amusing is that one of her companions is a genre-savvy fantasy fan who insists that she’s the Chosen One when all signs clearly point to the protagonist. Never fear, it doesn’t get metafictional and no 4th wall breaking occurs, it’s there so that fantasy girl’s unwarranted eagerness can serve as a foil to the heroine’s reluctance.
Oh, I forgot Seirei no Moribito (Guardian of the Sacred Spirit). It’s set in what’s essentially a fantasy version of Japan before the rise of the samurai, when it was a lot more like China and the emperor wasn’t a figurehead. The story is about a female bodyguard hired to protect the prince from his father the emperor’s assassins. Daddy wants to off his son because the kid is possessed by a water spirit. Again, it’s based on a series of novels. I don’t know, maybe Japanese fantasy writers are just better than their anime counterparts. The martial arts in it is more realistic, no boulders are sliced in half or anything, which makes the fights a lot more exciting. The animation is superb, which this video should show (full disclosure, I’m the one who uploaded it). The song captures the melancholy feeling that runs throughout the series. This trailer shows you more, especially more of the great fighting, but you can’t see the lush backgrounds as well. Admittedly, the show’s J-pop opening song gets on my nerves, but you can easily fast forward through it.
Whew, that was long. Anyway, that’s basically all the good fantasy anime I’ve watched lately. For other genres: I concur with the love for The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, which has really great science fiction ideas (and is again based on a series of books). The Girl Who Leapt Through Time is a funny and moving time travel story while The Summer Wars is just fun.
I enjoy political maneuvering - that would be a plus.
The Twelve Kingdoms - Hmm.
Seirei no Moribito. That trailer/video is well done.
Thanks for making the effort, but no, I don’t like the way any of those look. They all have that anime hyper stylization that turns me off.
Well, just so you know, Guin Saga didn’t immediately grab me. Not that the first episode sucked or was boring, but I didn’t see anything that absolutely hooked me. Once the story picks up, though, it really gets going. An illustration: Guin, the leopard man, is leading a guerrilla war against a superior force. He and the enemy general have both been shown to possess superhuman strength and they clash once, inconclusively, on the field of battle. At this point I was eagerly anticipating the showdown that was coming, but what does Guin do? He gets one of his companions to infiltrate the enemy and lure the general to a fiery trap while Guin himself was off somewhere else directing his army. Poor bastard was turned into a living birthday candle and his nemesis didn’t even show up to gloat at his death.
And trust me on this, the political manoeuvring gets deliciously Medici-like later on, what with magical Manchurian Candidates and whatnot. Speaking of which, I like how magic is portrayed, it’s just another tool of policy along with assassins and armies.
As for Twelve Kingdoms - is it the long flowing hair on the men that’s turning you off? Makes them look too emo? Because they’re not the heroes, they’re just supporting characters. I guess my description makes the series sound a bit kiddy, but believe me, it’s not. It’s honestly one of the best fantasy series I’ve ever seen, anime or otherwise (which, to be honest, there aren’t a lot of). By the end of the first episode when the heroine chops a giant bird of prey in half I was hooked. Seriously, the book series is gigantic in Japan so they really poured everything they had into making the anime.
And for Moribito, thanks but all of that is direct from the anime, all I did was upload it, there’s no editing or anything.
Try taking a peek at one of the series I linked to, I think Twelve Kingdoms at least might do for you, aesthetically speaking, though I don’t know if you’re into fantasy.
I just don’t understand this attitude. If you show me any animated movie or cartoon that’s drawn realistically I might see your point.
It’s a shame though that you don’t like the big eyed style of anime, because your missing AIR TV one of the best animes ever made.
I’d pay a lot of money to see this movie made.
http://blog.dramafever.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-o-matic/cache/f1803_house-blackjack.jpg
“Bambi eyes” is one of the most annoying elements, but it is far from the most objectionable. The crap frame rates, the cheats like the constant strobing between two frames, the abuse of walk cycles, etc.
“Anime” is Japanese for “mediocre animation”.
I do see your point. I think I said “reasonably” drawn animation, not “realistically” - animation, of course, departs from reality by its nature.
I guess I can only get at what I mean by an example. Watching an anime TV show one day, there was a character whose teeth were clenched in rage in a very exaggerated way throughout the entire show - no matter what was going on or what mood he was in. What’s the idea of that? I couldn’t determine if it was for comic effect or if there was some backstory (which I acknowledge, is the most likely). But it seemed an “unreasonable” way for a human to be drawn/act even in a fantastic cartoon, whereas I can suspend belief for a human to act like a kangaroo and jump up and down, or have wings (in a cartoon). I’m willing to admit I probably have to legitimate basis to make such a distinction other than unfamiliarity with the genre.
That just sounds like poor character design. A well-designed character is capable of a huge range of emotions, and talented animators imbue that range into every character, even if that character is a one-off being used in a single cartoon.
I suspect that complaining about anime is like trying to judge Kabiki theater by Western standards. I would be overjoyed to ignore anime and pretend it did not exist, if its influence had not thoroughly permeated, indeed overwhelmed, the great Western animation tradition. It is everywhere and unavoidable! The other thing is that I suspect a lot of anime fans have never seen good animation…it is the only reason I can think of which could excuse their apparent inability to notice the artistic flaws. Maybe it is like soap operas, where the fans manage to overlook the flat lighting, the stilted acting, the obvious teleprompter reading because they love the stories.
Maybe you need to do a reverse of this topic! I’d love to find Western animation to watch, where my biggest issue is that I can’t find the stories which I wish to be told. I’m not an anime purist, nor do I think OMG JAPAN IS AWESOME MAGICAL LAND. Most of my Western animation knowledge is Disney and Dreamworks theatrical.
For some people, it’s kind of like South Park. The animation isn’t the point, or it isn’t enough to stop them from watching. It’s that the show has a great sense of humour, and the medium that is used as the vehicle doesn’t matter.
Edit: I forgot about this series, which makes me go wait, what? This is anime?
Totally agree, and I thought about that with the character I was describing above. Dang, I wish I’d found a pic of him or another example.
Ranchoth, I have trouble watching any animation that is badly done. That’s why I came in, to find anime that is not substandard, which I have not encountered before. Some was suggested and I agree they look fairly well done, 'kay? All the characters in your links look reasonably drawn to me. And yes, much of Disney/Western/nonanime animation sucks.
OK thanks to everybody for the links and suggestions; if I keep posting I’ll never get around to watching…