And a head trauma victim speaks.
Joy.
Need I link to your meltdown thread again?
I’m not sure I’m being a hypocrite–maybe I am. Certainly taunting a retarded person retarded is just plain cruel and should not be done. Moreover, before this thread I viewed the use of “retarded” as an epithet as tacky. But the whole “we won’t approve of you if you use this word” self-righteous attitude is annoying. It’s like anti-smoking commercials–I detest cigarettes and can’t stand being around smoking, but everytime I see one of those smarmy TRUTH ads, I want to go out and buy a carton of unfiltered cigs just to piss those people off.
“Fag” to me is kind of like “nigger”–my set can say it in jest but outsiders ought to leave it alone because you don’t know how to use it safely. Those words have no other purpose but to be used in hate. IMO, “retarded” does not fall into that category, nor do “crazy” or “nuts”, yet I work at a place that wants to ban those words from television and print media (something I disagree with).
In any event, if one’s thoughts can’t change in the course of 8 months, then what the hell is thinking for?
IOW, blow me.
I thought you already said our (well, me and I assume others) good opinion meant very little to you. So does it bother you that people think this way, or not? Do you care what other people think on this issue, or not?
Does it annoy you if some people inwardly cringe and think ill of anyone who uses the term, or not? I mean, it isn’t as if most of us are being really vocal about protesting the use of the word everyime we hear it. We just have these internal thoughts that we usually keep to ourselves, and perhaps we’ll mention our feelings and reactions when the subject very occasionally comes up on a message board (or in real life).
It’s already been said very well, but I’ll add a “me, too.” I don’t think it should be banned, but I think it speaks poorly of the person using the term. At best, they are ignorant, at worst they are cruel. I have close relatives who are mentally retarded, including my brother. He has taken shit his entire life from people who think nothing of insulting him to his face, scaring him for fun, taking money from him, actually hitting him for the sport of it. After all, he is only a “retard.”
I’m not saying using this term is equivalent to striking someone, but it does indeed contribute to the marginalization and trivialization of an entire group of people, a group of people who most need our support and protection. It helps to create a culture where the mentally retarded are viewed as inferior and deserving of contempt. Like many other “names” that reduce an entire group of people to a single characteristic, it serves to dehumanize them, to make them lesser, something not quite worthy of our full respect. Seriously, how can you argue otherwise when you use them as a frame of reference for an insult, as a reference point for degrading someone? The effect may be minimal for every instance the word is used, but overall, to the extent that our society considers using the term “retard” (as an insult) to be clever and acceptable, I think that’s a good barometer of how well the mentally retarded are regarded and treated.
My brother knows what it means when someone calls him a retard, or when he hears a person use it of someone else. You know, my brother can’t even walk down the main street of our town at the same time the high school lets out–too many kids who think it’s a riot to torment him, even if only with words. This is despicable behavior, even for teenagers. It’s even worse when adults toss the same terms around. To say, “But I would never actually direct the word at a mentally retarded person,” is an argument of degree, IMO. Those kids are taking their lead from a culture that says it’s OK to view the mentally retarded as worthy of scorn. Hell, retards probably can’t even read, the animals. :mad:
It’s not personally annoying, but more like a Michael Moore-level of annoying. I guess it’s like Janet Jackson’s boob. Some people are horrified by the sight of a bare tit. The FCC fined CBS a ridiculous amount of money for the wardrobe malfunction, and that annoyed me. Same thing here. The idea that otherwise innocuous words can be censored (not you, but the OP) is offensive to me, and ough to be to anyone who prefers freedom of thought to a cuddlebunny world where the fuzzy pink Thought Police dictate what may be said.
That’s despicable behavior, and everyone here agrees that one should not be cruel to the retarded. We’re not talking about your feelings for your brother, but about censorship of thought. I’m not defending using the word, but the freedom to use the word. Calling people “retarded” is tacky, but tackiness and bad taste should not be banned as Mr. Moto wants.
And while retarded people should be treated with kindness, they are not capable of assuming mature roles in our society. They have less intelligence than the norm, and they are not capable of doing many many that the average person takes for granted (and yes, some retarded people can’t read, or even talk). They are victims of genetic or environmental accident who are permanently mentally stunted. Let’s not pretend it’s something that it’s not.
No, they’re people who’ve been dealt a cruel hand. But it’s interesting that you project that idea onto someone else.
Give me a break, you big pissy baby. If the issue really was out of the blue, it might be a fair point. But the fact that you brought it up a hour after bursting into tears at being called retarded, and right after realizing that it played well into current Republican talking points for the day, pretty clearly shows you’re just trying to score opportunistic points with the hall monitor. If you actually cared about this issue, you might well have considered NOT bringing it up in the one time and place where it would look like a singularly pathetic ploy for attention, rather than pious concern for anyone else’s well-being.
I am on record in my last post as saying I don’t think the word should be banned, so I’m not sure what point you’re responding to. I believe I was quite clear that I was offering an opinion as to why this usage is not the innocuous little bon mot some of us pretend it is. It is degrading and contributes to an atmosphere of disdain for people who are retarded, even when the word isn’t used in their presence, even if the person doesn’t intend that effect. Your joke was an example, so you are doing more than just defending some theoretical use of the mentally retarded as a frame of reference for ridicule. Let’s not try to rewrite the thread, please.
Again, I’m not sure what in my post you’re responding to. Is it your impression I don’t believe the mentally retarded are different regarding their mental capacities? I can assure you that I have no such illusion and I don’t know why you would think I do.
Really? That’s interesting? Did you get my point at all?
On the subject of which, here’s a summary of your arguments in this thread:
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As a word, “retard” is like “fag” - it’s OK to use it if you’re on the inside, but not if you’re on the outside.
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You consider it OK to use the word “retard”.
So, gobear, please tell us - are you a retard, or are you a despicable, deceitful hypocrite?
Right.
So which one is it? Do these words “have no other purpose but to be used in hate” or can they be used in some situations? Or does each group get to use the word that refers to it and no one else can?
I think I’ve made my position on this abundantly clear. I’d like to hear what yours is. It seems we both agree that there shouldn’t be any laws concerning specific words but diverge on what words ought to be considered offensive and who should be permitted to use them.
If, on the other hand, you’ve changed your mind about all this, I think that’s commendable.
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
(generally attributed to Voltaire)
I can’t jump; I’m crippled! 
I understand why some want to ban the use of the word “retard” in a certain context, but IMO, that’s no answer. If anything, it would prevent discussion & possibly opportunities for education & the changing of opinions.
I mean, look… I’m physically disabled; while I certainly don’t like the words “cripple” or “gimp” when they’re used in pejorative contexts, I think that the end goal of encouraging folks who use them in pejorative ways to think about what they’ve said is worth being insulted once in a while.
No words should be banned for any reason.
I can’t always get a handle for what a person is like from his use of words, but I sure can tell a lot about a person from <i>how</i> he uses words.
What the @#$% does that mean? “I can’t always get a handle on a person by his use of power, but I sure can tell a lot by how he he uses his power.” Huh?
I was at my husband’s 20th class reunion last night. I was sitting next to a black couple and across from a white man, Nate. Trying to make light conversation I asked Nate where he grew up. He told me and I said, “I grew up there!”
He leaned across me and whispered conspiratorially, “I don’t visit there much anymore.” He glanced at the couple next to me, who were absorbed in a conversation. “It’s turning into the 'hood, if you know what I mean.”
Wink
Now I’m not a black person. But his choice to use those words, especially in that forum, right next to an old classmate of his who had done nothing to him but shake his hand and act gracious told me volumes about Nate’s character.
Oh, no. We don’t need to ban certain words because they might offend someone. Rather we should let people speak freely so we know who we’re talking to.
I mean, if the PC police had their way, I could have wasted 15-20 minutes of my time talking to Nate before I realized he was a jerk. Instead, I knew within 3 minutes that he wasn’t anyone I wanted to know better.
Yeah, I struggled with that when I wrote it…
Try:
I can’t always tell a lot from the words that come out of someone’s mouth, but I can tell a lot from how he uses those words.
If I may step in on brain_ax’s behalf…
I think he’s saying that you can learn as much or more about a person based on the words they choose compared to the content of what they’re actually saying.
PunditLisa’s previous post provides an anecdote (and an opportunity for alliteration) that kind of illustrates the idea.
That was my point. I can’t control the twinge of hurt I feel when I hear that word. Yeah, I might be overly-sensitive on the topic, but raising a special needs kid for eight years will do that to a person.
I’m thick-skinned, I’ve seen and heard it all. Very little in this life actually shocks or offends me terribly. But yeah, I do get a twinge when I hear the word. I guess it’s my sore spot.
But, I would never try to take away someone’s right to say anything, no matter how offensive I find it to be.
I don’t use them much anyway. So, yea, probably. That’s my personal take. Words which apply to people who have no choice in the matter should not be used as pejoratives. Pejoratives should be saved for people who have done something to deserve it, not simply people who were born with a defect or have other issues beyond their control. Simple as that really. If a term is used enough as a pejorative then it eventually becomes a stigma for those who are unlucky enough to have it applied to them through no fault of their own. I think this is a minor injustice and do what I can to avoid helping those terms take on a common connotation as a negative descriptor. I’d rather they be as neutral as possible. If a person is mentally retarded then I’d prefer the word “retard” not cause them feelings of shame. They did nothing to be ashamed of.
I don’t speak for anyone but myself. I will not attempt to stop anyone from saying anything they feel like saying. I noted in my first post here, I oppose banning the word being used as an insult. I consider it a matter of personal conscience. I would rather form my own habits to avoid the word as a pejorative and thus avoid the connotation of retardation being morally negative. As with all involuntary conditions it is morally neutral. I never want to be in a situation where I blurt out “what a freaking retard!” at a sporting event or somesuch and then stammer over myself apologizing to someone who is actually MR and happens to be nearby. So I, myself, have made the personal choice not to use terms which are descriptive of traits which individuals can not control as pejoratives.
Simple as that. That decision is binding on me alone and my moral guidelines which lead me to make that decision are outlined here for purposes of illustration only. I am against the proposition of banning the word “retarnd” as a pejorative although I personally don’t use it in that sense for reasons of my own. I took a similar position in regards to “swear” words in thread titles in a memorable thread a few months ago.
Enjoy,
Steven