Let's celebrate the holiday season this year by *not* acting like colossal assholes.

The holidays to me, not being particularly religious in the Judeo-Christian sense, are at least a time where I reflect on kindness, charity, and general goodwill towards humanity. I enjoy shopping for gifts and wrapping presents, and that little bit of excitement that I always have when I first wake up Christmas morning. It’s a nice time of year and people seem to be nicer to one another, and I’m all for that.

Yet, there is a problem. In the quest for the perfect gift and the flawless Christmas, some people go so very far astray. They become like ravenous wolves and descend on their local retailers, ready to shove, kick, or bite their way to a happy holiday. I guess maybe it’s the stress and the pressure of dealing with family and trying to make everyone happy. I understand, but I think we should start a new expression of holiday cheer that’s more meaningful than listening to Christmas carols on the radio or taking the kids to see Santa.

That is, I think we should all remember not to be colossal assholes.

I know it sounds easy and a small thing, but recently I’ve seen the colossal assholes come out to play as if it were Colossal Asshole Appreciation Week. The people who are in retail, customer service, and so on are people too; why drop your change in the Salvation Army bucket, but ream the saleswoman a new one when they don’t have what you want in stock? How can you whistle cheerfully along to “Frosty the Snowman” while careening down the aisle at Target while your kids are screaming, ramming carts and passersby who stray into your path?

Don’t get me wrong – there are people out there who are in great practice for this. Some folks are very forgiving, and I am very thankful when people surprise me with kindness. But yet, it’s always horrifying when someone calls to find out where their treasured gift is. I work in a phone center doing customer service, and I always tread very softly when I explain that no, the package may not be there in time for Christmas and yes, I realize that the people taking the order somehow decided to guarantee it’d be there in 2-3 days when our fastest shipping is 5-7 and they didn’t even put you down for rush delivery so God only knows when it will arrive, and no, the order isn’t even showing in the system yet as shipped because our warehouse is overtaxed and can’t keep up and it’s been 3 weeks since you placed your order, and no, I can’t even cancel the order and fuck off because our systems can’t cancel or modify orders after they’re placed.
I know, it’s a gift. You are stressed out. But please, please, PLEASE have mercy on my sensitive little CSR soul and don’t scream at me.

Here is a recent example that might illustrate better some guidelines on how to treat folks like me:

1.) Just yesterday I picked up on the cancel line (we have a club membership dealie where people get autoshipments) and got some gentleman who wanted to cancel. Okay, sir, I say, do you have your account number?

“I also want to return these 3 packages”, he answers. Ok, I guess I was ignored, and this irks me a little bit, because I really like when I’m treated like a person that is conversing rather than a drone. I’ve gotten kind of used to it, but I don’t understand. I mean, can’t you say “No, sorry, I don’t. Also, I want to return some packages” just to sort of acknowledge my existence? But, it’s not too bad. It’s just a personal thing I’d like for folks to do.

Anyhow, since he’s gone off on a tangent, I decide to deviate from standard operating procedure and help him with that first. However, since we ship out packages every 2 months, but returns must be received within 2 months, I assume that he’s probably past the time on returning this. (I know 2 months sounds short, but a) this stuff expires and b) it’s returnable under any condition, including used and even all the products emptied. It’s a money back guarantee, really, rather than a return policy, as we can’t just take medication back and resell it to other customers.

So, I say, “Ok, I can help you with that too, but those packages have to be sent back within 60 days of when you received them.”

Stunned silence. “Why?!” he retorts angrily. I answer, “Well, sir, it’s a 60 day money back guarantee.” I continue, [knowing that people usually start arguing, I try to extrapolate with more information as well, because in my experience this usually calms people down and we’re going to cover this ground anyway] “the information about the guarantee is included with every shipment and is on all our catalogs and infomercials, and we also tell you when you place the order.”

Most people, at this point, suck up and deal. After all, if it’s 3 packages, one of them is probably about 6 months old. I mean, we’re not horrible Nazis about it – we don’t calculate it by hour and minute or anything – it’s really a guideline and I was willing to negotiate if the second package was arguably too late.

He starts huffing and says “Well, I’ll just tell my credit card company that I won’t pay!”

Ok, great, a live one. I was going to start to explain why that isn’t going to eliminate the problem when he says: “Do you have confirmation of delivery?” I sort of furrow my brow and think, ‘does this guy really think I’m going to help him with this?’

I say, “sir, you just confirmed yourself that you received it.”

He starts yelling “I’ll just deny I ever received anything and your company won’t be able to prove it. If you want to play it that way, then fine!”

Okay, time out. First of all, please don’t tell me that “I” did something. This happens a lot. Apparently “I” am very busy because “I” am always the person who is withholding refunds, sending accounts to collections, sending shipments that people didn’t want, and, so help me God, I even work for the post office because “I” sent a package back and said that the address was undeliverable. Please, folks, don’t do this. I am a human being and I didn’t do these things. Making it personal just escalates the situation and usually puts people in a very antagonistic mood (which solves nothing).

Second of all, what? So you’re going to commit credit card fraud? Am I supposed to feel threatened by this? People defraud us all the time. If you are really so immoral that you will lie and steal then there’s really not much point in negotiating, I think to myself.

Let’s put it this way: we can’t do much with packages that are returned, as far as I know. I think they just get destroyed even if they are unopened simply for liability reasons. I think I’m apparently supposed to say “Oh, no, sir, don’t do that, please just send those packages back!” Uh, why? It’s labor cost to us. The only real thing he’s getting, and I warrant he dosen’t know it, is that he’ll probably get his S/H back. So we’re out like $18. Hoo boy. Oh no, sir, please don’t do it.

I really want to respond to the guy with “Oh, you’re a thief? I wish you had just said that in the beginning and saved me some time” because that’s what I’m thinking. Instead, though, I try to calm him down, and I don’t mind that much because it would pretty much make my day if he would be stupid enough to give me something to open his account so that I could have proof of his threats (this happens quite often). So I say, “Sir, I’m just explaining the return policy–” but he hangs up.

Yeah, I was sort of ticked off about it because it’s hard not to get wired up when people start with you on a personal level. But, on the bright side, I didn’t have to cancel his account, which is great – it counts against me to cancel an account because we’re supposed to try to save them (by helping people change their account settings, explaining their options, fixing service problems, etc.) So, the guy actually did me a favor. I guess at least the spirits of irony have holiday spirit.

I guess the moral of this story is that being nice is good. Besides which, some little part of me hopes that nasty little bastard reads this message and feels ashamed of himself for committing fraud and being a colossal asshole. So much for good will towards men, right?

Happy holidays, folks.

Religions have been telling us to be nice to each other for several thousand years. The result? A good chunk of humanity has decided that ‘being nice’ translates into burning stuff, nailing each other to trees and generally acting like a bunch of bastards. I guess what I’m saying is don’t hold your breath.

You never let me have any fun!

The problem, of course, is that people get screwed all the time, and the guy was just trying not to get screwed. Unfortunately you represent the proverbial “them.” I understand what you’re saying, but you should have a little sympathy for him to. Ever take your car into a garage? Know how that feels? You know they’re probably going to try to screw you.

No, avoiding a screwing is something you do before you buy three packages and wait 'til at least one of them is beyond warranty. Shopping around, finding places with good customer service (not saying that the OP works for a scummy company or anything), stuff like that. Not screaming at a customer service worker and threating to commit fraud. Sympathy? No.

I have no sympathy at all for people who don’t seem to be able to conduct themselves as, oh I don’t know, ADULTS?! I, too, have been screwed over by many a company. I’ve gotten really goddamn angry and had some words with people. But I’ll tell you, never in my life have I resorted to obscenity, ridiculous threats, or screaming.
More flies with honey, and all that.
fluiddruid, it sounds as if you were more than polite to this jerkoff. Good for you.

Usually when I get on the phone with a CSR, first I’m put on hold and have to listen to a recording which includes the phrase “Your phone call may be monitored or recorded to ensure quality service” or something like that. Does your company not do this?

This is such an unoriginal defense mechanism used by sales and service people of every stripe, form and capacity. Grow up, people.

When a customer refers to to you in the second person, he clearly doesn’t mean you personally, but, what they would call in the South “you all”. The English language obviously unfortunately does not distinguish between second person singular and plural. The word is “you” whether they are addressing one person or a hundred, or an entire cooperation. I think somewhere in the recesses of their defense-mode brains, the offended parties know that.

When I complain to a store employee about something, of course I’m going to say “you”, and I mean “you – the store”, not “you – the person I am talking to”. As someone else here said, “you” represent the entire store, or even chain. Maybe that’s why employees of places that deal with the public are often thought of as Customer Service Representatives.

Sometimes I try to avoid the whole sidetracking defensiveness store employess often own by saying, “you people” instead of simply “you”. Strangely, that does not always head off the defensive attitude. Some people take “you people” as an insult! Go figure! Short of sounding like some Arkansas hick and saying “you all”, how am I supposed to make it clear that I mean “you”, the store, not “you” the person? Especially when you damn well know that that is the unspoken implication, just wanting to distract from the fact that you are some lackey with limited decision-making powers?

As a customer, I really don’t care what “you” did or did not do. You are overestimating your own importance. I’m sure you are a very nice person, and I wouldn’t hesitate to have a beer with you or whatever and hang out with you as the equals we automatically become as long as you are not on the job. But when we are on opposite sides of that customer service counter/phone line, you are primarily a representative of your company, and your pride as a person with feelings second.

I suspect that the real reason you are so cantankerous is the fact that retail workers are treated so abominately (sp) in this country, and you basically have no resources to change that (maybe you should form unions like the NYC subway workers. They have tremendous power over the public right now, enjoying every minute of it, and somehow I can’t hold it against them. I think they are kind of cool for not putting up with the shit and standing their ground.)

It may seem to you that we are “making it personal”, but maybe that is because you are “taking it personal”.

For the semantics picker-aparters: “I” and “we” in this post refers to the general consumer. But you already knew that.

In my experience, call centers don’t record every single call. It would be far too expensive. Calls are recorded at random for training or review purposes by supervisors. If a supervisor is recording every single call by an employee, it’s generally because they are looking for an excuse to fire that employee.

Suspenderzzz: How about saying ‘<insert store name> did this’ instead of ‘you’. That de-personalizes the situation and lets the CSR know that you’re not referring to ‘you’ personally.

Colossal assholes? Shouldn’t that be colonal assholes?

Not consistently. Besides which, the guy gave no identifying information, otherwise I would have documented it myself. I did this today - got a guy who wanted to return 5 expired packages (at one every two months, this takes awhile, and keep in mind this was every package he ever received!), and when I explained return policy, was furious and who said he’d tell his credit card company to remove the charges. I explained to him that this wouldn’t eliminate the debt – we’ll just send him a bill. He said he wouldn’t pay. I noted on his account all of what he said because a lot of times they’ll change their story with the credit card folks and this at least means my company’s unlikely to give in.

The problem, of course, is that people get screwed all the time, and the guy was just trying not to get screwed. Unfortunately you represent the proverbial “them.” I understand what you’re saying, but you should have a little sympathy for him to. Ever take your car into a garage? Know how that feels? You know they’re probably going to try to screw you.
[/quote]

Yeah, but I don’t scream at the attendant about how he’s ruining my life, either.

I understand people don’t want to get screwed. I feel sympathy for people who have been taken advantage of, like people who speak little English or are elderly and don’t understand what they signed up for, and the person on the line didn’t go over it well enough with them. However, it’s like the garage: if there’s a big sign that says “Parking $5/hr” I might wince at the cost, but I don’t take it out on the guy handling the cash. I’m sorry but I have absolutely no sympathy for rude people, under any circumstances. Period.

Hell, I was at the K-Mart today and was frustrated with the sheer length of the line and that virtually all of the things I went to get there were out of stock, as well as the store being viciously understaffed. Yet, when I got to the register after waiting 15 minutes, I was nice to the guy. It’s not his fault and being huffy about it is only making it worse for him.

I’ve had some calls from people who are in much worse situations. I’ve had calls from people who need to cancel because they now know they have cancer or another horrible disease, or, once, because they were a parent buying for a child that had run away from home, and they were incredibly polite and nice to me, though clearly worried and unhappy. Sorry, but the fact that I can’t or won’t do what they expected or want doesn’t make it OK for a person to be a bastard about it.

I think most retail personnel know that you don’t mean them personally when saying “you”. It is a classic passive-aggressive tactic to purposely misunderstand the other person in order to throw them off track. Passiv-aggressive tactic of the powerless, I should add.

The beef store personnel have (and there seems to be an awful lot of that on these boards) is not with the customer, it is with the plantation-style management tactics of the capitalist system that treats these workers like shit. That’s where they have to go to complain, not to, and about, the customers. The customers are not the enemy.

Why retail people put up with low wages, no benefits, no general dignity and respect is something I fail to understand. They should band together and organize or something. There sure are enough of them to form a strong force that could make a difference. I don’t understand why they don’t do it. Imagine if all store personnel threatened a walk-out in the middle of the Christmas shopping season, making their demands clear. I bet they would have management at their knees.

They wouldn’t. Management knows damn well they can pull as many high school kids as they need out of the woodwork in a day.

And the customers are occasionally the enemy. Mostly when they’re being utter pricks.

I’ll agree with what racinchikki said. My cow-orkers and I tried this once, and were told that we could either stay and shut the fuck up, or walk out and not bother coming back again. Retail and customer service staff aren’t exactly hard to come by, and those who rock the boat are easily replaced. In any case, a walkout wouldn’t have caused my bosses much trouble. All they would have done is draft in cover from other departments and branches until replacements were hired.

Regarding unions, I was a member of USDAW (the main union for retail staff in the UK) and they were bloody useless. They always backed down in pay/working hours negotiations, and usually their advice to anyone having problems was to cut your losses and quit. After paying your union dues for several years, it’s rather disheartening to find out that they’re not willing to fight your corner for you.

People put up with it because they’re stuck. Sometimes, you have to eat a lot of shit.

:mad:

Well, I can’t really speak for retail, but I can’t complain that much about my employer. The people who are treating me badly aren’t my superiors, they’re the customers. My employers just promoted me to full time with benefits after 2 months of work (after training, so in total 2 1/2 months). Granted I’ve tried to be an excellent employee, but they could treat me a lot worse. My supervisor is very respectful to me, at least compared to most other management I’ve had. I’m getting better wages and benefits here than I can find pretty much anywhere else, given that anything I’m qualified for – mostly clerical jobs, administrative assistant positions and such – are intimidatingly competitive to get and I’ve had no success at anything even remotely close to full time with benefits.

Also, like I said, most people are nice. Heck, I talked to a woman yesterday who came right out and said at the beginning “I want you to understand I’m not mad at you. I know this isn’t your fault.” I appreciated that very much and told her so. (The poor woman had put up with quite a bit of problems from our company – nothing intentional, just the computer system being dodgy and waiting a long time for orders to ever go out. This being right before the holidays I know these things can get emotional. Because she was so utterly reasonable I did go out of my way to find out every option we had that was available to her and also refunded some of her money just for kicks.)

It’s just that very small minority of childish people who leap out in my memory because, well, a person always tends to remember the jerks.

Just a couple of thoughts on the OP. I’m going to break it up, but have no intention of taking anything out of contest. If I do please forgive me. It’s the season for that after all. :slight_smile:

Amen. Couldn’t agree more. Hell hath no fury as a mother deprived of the last Tickle-Me-Elmo on Dec 23. Like you, I chalk it up to stress, but it still needs to stop

Pardon me for saying so, but if your company actually did this, ya’ll screwed the guy. Ya’ll promised him 2-3 days and it’s been over three weeks? That’s bad. Your company has uterly failed to fulfill it’s promises and has shown an extraordinary amount of ineptitude and incompetence. The customer has every right to be angry as he has, for all intents and purposes, been lied to. I try to remain calm, but if this happened to me, I might be calling the company’s representative, you, a few choice names as well.

The guy trying to return the shipment was an asshole, agreed. However, as others have said, you are the representative of your company. Maybe the problem with the earlier guy (waiting three weeks for someting promised in 3 days) was with the people in shipping, but you are the representative. The customer cannot call the guys in shipping to work it out, he has to go through you. You represent the entire company when you take that call. Part of your job description is taking the heat caused by others. I’ve had to do it before when working in the hospitality industry, and I can identify, but you have to suck it up because it is your job. Personally, I try to say “y’all” instead of “you” when dealing with companies that have screwed me coughcoughsprintcoughcough so as to insure the rep knows I mean the whole, but not everyone uses that form of the second person plural. Just know that the plural is implied when someone says “you”

Lastly, you have a thankless job and I sympathize with you. Especially with the asshole trying to cheat on the returns. But it is your job to represent the company and take the heat. It sucks, but that’s the service sector. Anyway, season’s greetings and may you not have to deal with anyone like the return guy again.

Yes, management could do that and they probably would. The sad part is that the consumer would not notice any difference in service and competence.

That is where the system is broken. If retail workers weren’t so damn replacable, in other words, if retail were considered a form of skilled labor, this problem would not exist.

When we had the subway strike looming here in the Rotten Apple, everyone was fully aware that the powers-that-be would be unable to just pull substitue people out of the street to run those trains. Most transit jobs require a certain amount of skill and training. The fact that they cannot be so easily replaced gives them a lot of power.

In Europe, retail is a form of skilled labor. Not just anyone can get a sales position. You have to undergo a 2-3 year apprenticeship involving classroom time, internship and exams. You learn the ins and outs of retail. You also get benefits, job security and all that jazz. Not to mention much better working conditions, including general dignity and respect for the sales people.

That makes for a happier, more knowledgeable workforce and for fewer irate customers. Because if a sales person is actually trained at what they do, know their merchandise, and have some power and control over how they do their jobs, the customers will have less reason to complain.

It’s very frustrating when you have to deal with a sales person who is rude, sullen, barely literate, and doesn’t know the merchandise. Not all of them are like that, of course, but there are many more than should be. If you walk into Bed Bath and Beyond and ask three different people what aisle the pillow cases are in, and you are misdirected three times, that’s three times too many.

The term is “y’all” and it’s used throughout the South - ALWAYS as a plural despite what you hear on television. It’s a very useful term.