A nice thing about residing in the U.S. is that we can rely on the U.S. for protection. We wouldn’t need to defend against large-scale assault. The problem it presents, though, is that we would need to comply with all federal regulations. At best, any new laws we create will be more restrictive than existing federal laws. But at least that gives us some guidelines to work with.
What about land ownership? Should people be allowed to own real estate, or would the land be shared by all? Should we give every family a small plot of land to call their own? Who will get that lovely tract of land down by the river?
There is no empirical evidence that a certain percentage of all humans born are guaranteed to turn violent. Poverty causes violence. To eliminate the lion’s share of violence, all we’ve gotta do is eliminate poverty.
Protection against “large scale assaults”?? – “compliance with federal regulations”?? – “land ownership”?? ------ Damn [SiouxChief – don’t be such a drag on Doperland dude! - Unlearn the white man’s ways Chief!!
Uh, this could be tricky… because this could slop over into philosophy… and if you’re not careful, that can slip-slide over close to religion…
Like the principle, “Treat others as you would like them to treat you.” Seems to me I read that somewhere else, sometime or other…
Anyhow, I think that a more liveable place will come from various cultural values more than they will from any laws - if we can’t change human nature, at least we can more-or-less consciously set up a culture where some forms of human cussedness are discouraged just because no one thinks they’re cool.
I think Doperland will start off well with it’s advantage of general respect for knowledge. Education is a good thing - I think we’ll find that educated citizens are in most ways more peaceable and prosperous, better citizens for a little patch of paradise.
Um, there’s going to be courts or some way of resolving disputes?
Damn straight. Perhaps instead of a default happy-shiny liberal democracy, we could have a more authoritarian government. Maybe prospective parents should have to meet certain standards of responsibility, skill and maturity before they can legally reproduce. On the other hand, if Udopia is in the States, our citizens will already have notions about personal freedom* that will conflict with our…Grand Plan.
see the gun discussion. I wasn’t talking specifically about the problem of weapon ownership but about the possible problem with people seeing the constitution as if it’s carved in stone.
I though that I had posted a way of getting rid of real life flamewars earlier in this discussion, but I posted inWhere does religious tolerance end?, instead. Let’s try this again.
I can not seem to see the other side’s point of view. I have just as much free speech as you, in a current society, in print, and in speech, and you are free not to listen to me. However, I underestimated the willingness of people to keep arguing with me, long after people were sick of it, so:
It is very simple, research historical precident of your opinon. It’s safe, it’s smart, and it’s the law.
Let’s say that I, or someone like me, participates in a public conversation. When and if I begin to simply state opinions that I have not researched, but simply believe makes sense, I get fined. The same thing should happen to those who do the same thing with their preferred religious book. It should be quite obvious to a doper police person when someone is speaking about something they know nothing about. If they defend the idea that they know what they are talking about, they can take it up with a judge.
Note that I am not suggesting this for the forum, for I would soon run out of money, but instead for this hypothetical society. Also note that I did not talk about soap boxes, or public debates, but simply street corner debate.
No no no–it’s not an either-or thing. We’ll have a happy-shiny authoritarian liberal democracy. You see, everyone is free to leave at any time, so if someone is feeling opressed by the child tax, they can simply leave and drop their crotch apples elsewhere. Meanwhile, the rest of the citizenry, who supports the child tax, will sit back and enjoy the peace, quiet, and lower taxes (fewer children of little means that the Great People’s Universal Health Care System will have to cover).
Well thanks a lot, Metacom, for sharing the term “crotch apples” with all of us. Now to business:
Now Scott_plaid, you whooshing? It should be abundantly clear that you can’t run a country like a forum, for a couple of reasons:
[ul]
[li]Udopia’s hard-working police (like BrainGlutton) are going to have more important things to do than fine people for not citing their sources.[/li][li]How are they going to do this, anyway? You’ll have to install telescreens and have sinister-looking people in mirror-shades and black suits hanging around the town to listen in on every political rant, late-night ramble at the local bar, or church sermon. Citizens may well be willing to live in Udopia if there’s kid-tests, but Big Brother?[/li][li]Udopian government must then commit to one epistemological stance. What kind of source determines what’s true and what’s unfounded? The Bible? Wikipedia? Peer-reviewed scientific journals? Now, someone else may have an entirely different and incommensurable criterion of truth. Which one’s right? You seem to think that the Bible’s not the fundamental criterion, as it itself must be backed up with evidence. So you’re probably committed to an empirical approach. But you can’t assume everyone else is an empiricist/materialist/whatever, or that they’ll agree to be part of a society that’s One-Philosophy-Only–even if they think the government’s espousing the right one.[/li][/ul]
In short, just let the citizens speak their minds. Educate them in critical thinking, rather than fining them.
No, I wasn’t whooshing, I was being serious, and I forgot to say that it could be enforced via a citizen’s arrest, I mean, citizens fine. However, as per my posting in the wrong thread, and as per the observation of posters, I need to, and have stped smoking crack while posting.
No taxes and everyone gets paid to sit around in their underwear and post on the national Udopia MB. This can be paid for through our tomacco exports.
Seriously, education should be payed for provided you keep a GPA of x, say 3.0. You can not pay for your own schooling. Get the grades or learn to ask “You want fries with that?” in a way that gets you tips.
Now to business: