An Experiment in Government

Great Debates
1

Many people here on the Dope seem really interested in government. One of the debates about the constitution of the United States, I think it was titled “Constitution 2.0”, inspired me to post this. “What if,” I thought, “the people on the Dope could create their own constitution, instead of edit an existing one?” That thought shall lead us to our scenario.

A new island has just been discovered/risen from the depth in the Pacific ocean. For some reason the members of the SDMB have been asked to found a new country on this island. You all need to form a general plan on how this new country is to be managed, including things like how the country will be ruled and the basic laws that the new country will follow.

The only rule: You have to come to some form of agreement with the other members, or no country for you :p.

The new island is about 100,692 sq mi in or about 260,791.083 sq km in area (which is about twice the size of England). It is uninhabited and shows no signs of a previous civilization. (It’s not Atlantis)

(I thought that this could get debate-y, so I put it here, but if it belongs elsewhere please move it.)

2

Article I of the new constitution: Don’t be a jerk.

3

I’m sure there’ll be lots of folks who will come up with a variety of ideas.

I’m curious, though, as to how we plan to populate this country. Sex jokes aside, the active “population” of this message board is probablky not five thousand people, wchich is likely insufficient in the short term to sustain a modern industrial nation; even assuming we’re bringing our families, ten to fifteen thousand people isn’t many, runs the risk of shortages of critical skills, and would leave the country ridiculously underpopulated.

In order to draw up a meaningful constitution we first have to figure out where we are getting some people, because a constitution drawn up without regard to the people it sets the rules for is, well, kind of stupid.

Let’s assume that the new island nation Esdeemba (get it?) is protected by force of arms by friendly allies, so we needn’t worry about North Korea or some such place getting it into their heads to come over with guns and take the place over. What are we doing to recruit some more people and encourage some immigration? Or do we get to pick a million start people, or are we going to assume it?

4

The island isn’t going to be entirely populated by SDMB members, you are just supposed to create the government. (though you can stay if you want) The population of the island will be seeded by whomever is offering us the job. However, they don’t have enough people, so we will have to encourage immigration to further populate the island and insure enough critical skills.

The first set of colonists will be from all but the highest economic brackets (is the the right phrase?) and will come from many countries, so you can expect people of all races and religions. The first set of people are people who wanted the chance to colonize the country. (they weren’t kidnapped or anything, they are enthusiastic)

If anyone need more clarification or something, don’t hesitate to ask :).

And I don’t get the name, does it have something to do with “SDMB”?

5

Gon. Had I plantation of this isle, my lord,—

Ant. He’ld sow’t with nettle-seed.

Seb.
Or docks, or mallows.

Gon. And were the king on’t, what would I do?

Seb. ’Scape being drunk for want of wine.

Gon. I’ the commonwealth I would by contraries

Execute all things; for no kind of traffic

Would I admit; no name of magistrate;

Letters should not be known; riches, poverty,

And use of service, none; contract, succession,

Bourn, bound of land, tilth, vineyard, none;

No use of metal, corn, or wine, or oil;

No occupation; all men idle, all;

And women too, but innocent and pure;

No sovereignty;—

Seb.
Yet he would be king on’t.

Ant. The latter end of his commonwealth forgets the beginning.

Gon. All things in common nature should produce

Without sweat or endeavour: treason, felony,

Sword, pike, knife, gun, or need of any engine,

Would I not have; but nature should bring forth,

Of its own kind, all foison, all abundance,

To feed my innocent people.

Seb. No marrying ’mong his subjects?

Ant. None, man; all idle; whores and knaves.

Gon. I would with such perfection govern, sir,

To excel the golden age.

Seb.
’Save his majesty!

Ant. Long live Gonzalo!

6

BrainGlutton, while Shakespeare is nice and all, he’s not very… helpful right about now :).

7

OK, how about this: The government shall pass no law regulating the private, moral behaviour of its citizens - that is, where such behaviour has no meaningful or measurably detrimental effect upon non-consenting parties.

8

OK. We have no hint of who will be the people inhabiting this island or what their political, social or religious culture will be. All we can do is design a sort of generical ideal republic. I propose:

  1. A one-house legislature based on proportional representation.

  2. A separation-of-powers system with a separately elected chief executive; but the legislature has the authority to dismiss the executive and call new elections at any time.

  3. An independent judiciary.

  4. A separately elected Tribunate to police and investigate the other three branches, respond to citizens’ complaints, and run metagovernmental functions such as the elections.

  5. Despite all of the above, BrainGlutton is, and remains for life, Supreme God-Emperor, with absolute power and all traditional privileges, including the jus primae noctis.

9

People will be responsible for their own actions. They will take full responsibility for any results from actions they take.

Freedom from religion as well as freedom of religion.

The people will have the right to keep and bear arms (defined as any weapon that can be carried on a citizens person)…and the responsibility for any action resulting from those weapons.

Freedom of speech will be protected.

Freedom of sexual preference will be protected.

Citizens will have the right to keep and use any substance they like…and the responsibility for any actions they take regarding those substances.

The government shall institute a flat tax of no more than 20% except in times of emergency when the rate can be raised to 35% while a state of emergency persists. That state of emergency will have to be ratified by a super majority of the entire legislative branch and approved by the executive branch, and must be reviewed and ratified yearly or the rate will reset back to the base level.

The government must work within that budget and will not be permitted to run at a deficit except in times of national emergency. All proposed programs including social and defense must work within that budget or must be cut.

Voting will be the right of all citizens and a popular vote will determine both local and Island wide elections. There will be term limits on both the Executive and Legislative branches of government. Once you have served in either branch you will be ineligible to serve again…if you have held any office in any branch of national government you can not run for any other office.

-XT

10

Thanks for responding, BrainGlutton. Proportional representation looks really interesting. However, you might have a tough time convincing others to support your God-King thing. Heh…

11

I’m open to compromise on every point but the jus primae noctis! :wink:

12

Good luck with that BG…remember that in my version the citizens will be armed. And the government isn’t going to have big bucks for Abrams and such…so if you want to try your luck with the whole first night rights thingy best wear a bullet proof vest, ehe?

-XT

13

Oh, that’s me out then. I’ll find a different island.

14

No worries…I’m sure it will work out fine for you. I probably wouldn’t want to live on your island either…and I certainly don’t want to live on an island where BG gets first night rights with all the new married women (or men, or goats or whatever). Urf!

-XT

15

He’d better have more bulletproof than a vest if he’s going for jus primae noctis in an armed society…

16

What about private, immoral behavior?

I note that these rank and priviledges are explicitly limited to the duration of your life. It almost reads like a suggestion, doesn’t it? :slight_smile:

Bazookas? Suicide-bomber vests?

Can a person be prosecuted for demonstrable intent to do harm if they fail to actually do so, perhaps due to police intervention?

Does this include children? Babies? (“As his legal guardian, I shall place his vote for him…”)

17

Now lets not argue. If you disagree, then debate! If you can’t get anywhere, then compromise. There’s only one island, and you don’t get it unless you can agree (at lease in writting :))

…and if anyone got RickJay’s island name, can you explain it to me?

18

I can’t edit, so that last post of mine wasn’t to you begbert2

19

My article to the constitution: "Sec 1. A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed

Sec 2. For the idiots in society, Sec 1 means what it says. If you want to deny people their right to keep and bear private arms then go fuck yourself."

Sec 3. If you try to play word games with Sec 1, then after fucking yourself, move to another society where private arms are banned.

Sec 4. If you still believe that this section applies to state sponsored militias, and haven’t moved, then wipe the drool off of your face and check yourself into the nearest insane asylum.

20

Private behaviour as judged by any moral yardstick - the government doesn’t get to stop you doing things merely because it disapproves. If someone is being harmed by your actions, then you’re breaking the law. If not, the law has nothing to say.