No worries.
Oh, and Esdeemba = Es-Dee-Em-Ba = S-D-M-B = SDMB. I can’t tell you why he didn’t spell it Esdeembee, though.
It’s a play on SDMB - the abbreviated name of this board.
To be honest, the way the thread is headed, you might as well name the island ‘America’ and have done with it.
Ah, yes.
A better name: “America - in your dreams!”
Can we examine the jury trial system?
I’ve always wished there could be a way to have trials decided, not by people picked up off the street, but by something like a group of professional jurors. Not exactly a bunch of judges and lawyers, but something else–people with some training in legal and critical thinking.
-FrL-
Well, if you have anything constructive to add, feel free. I thought the idea was to come up with a constitution that each of us would LIKE to see.
I could probably make one of those now. What’s your point exactly? What’s your alternative?
Can they do that today? Seems to me the answer is…yes.
The franchise always has limits. Did I say anything about children? Babies? I said all CITIZENS…which usually does not include children or babies. I didn’t mention anything about proxy votes…that was your strawman, ehe?
Do you have any ideas of your own or just wish to riff off of mine?
Look…I get it that you guys are skart of guns and all. That you think adult citizens need big pappa gumit to look after us all and keep us safe. Fine. So…propose your own constitution that gives us nerf world if you like. I’m giving MY take on things…one where a citizen can own a gun if he or she wants one (that is CITIZEN again in case you weren’t following along…this would not include children or babies or small furry animals). And that adult citizens would be responsible for their own actions if they did bad things.
Yeah…something like that only happens when the nobles (or those in power) have all the swords (or guns)…
-XT
That is one seriously powerful legislative. What stops the executive from being just an extension (pawn) of the legislators, if they can dismiss him at their whim? And what stops the Tribunate from having ultimate power, as they seem to be able to police and investigate at their whim, without having to answer to anyone?
Yes, there does seem to be a distinct rush to fill this idyll with imported deadly weapons.
The most important piece, to me, is the independent judiciary. To allow this, however, we would need a massive amount of legal precedent, that has been tested and isn’t just reactive to local and immediate circumstances. How does the Common Law grab people?
Also, the separation of the chief executive from the legislature: I just don’t understand why it’s necessary, since parliamentary systems have the means to remove their chief executive too. I like the fact that the head of the government is answerable to a local electorate as well as being Boss of Everyone. It makes them that bit more vulnerable; the presidential system would vest too much power in one individual for my island. In this island, however, the power of the legislature to vote no confidence in its leader must be better codified than most parliaments, though.
I do strongly agree with separation of church and state, proportional representation, and lack of moral interference in the private lives of people, “an it hurt no one”.
How would the PR function? Along Irish lines (multiple representatives in each constituency but coalition governments usually necessary?); German lines (steering away from the Weimar setup)?
So there we go - a parliamentary democracy based on the Common Law. Hurrah!
Hey, Mangetout, why don’t we form an island built on parliamentary lines instead. We can call it SDMBritain or something. Tea drinking mandatory.
One idea: when they dismiss the executive, they also dissolve the legislature and have new elections across the board. That should definitely limit the use of executive removal to national emergencies, if at all.
We’ll need some kind of constitutional article regarding Marmite; “It’s OK for you to hate it, as long as it’s OK for others to love it” - or something like that.
I’m not scared or anything, but do you really think that constitution should guarantee right to just enter store and buy automatic grenade launcher and shitload of nerve-gas filled grenades to any citizen?
And you expect any form of law enforcement in this country to last more than a week?
That’s crossing one line of tolerance too many. I think I’d classify hating it as an “exceptional thoughtcrime in this time of national emergency”, and exile the haters to work as slaves on Birdshit Atoll.
Sure, and a nuclear weapon as well as a 1920’s style death ray…and even a herring!
Or maybe I didn’t mention nerve-gas or go into specifics that would be listed as military use only, and you guys are building positions for me out of straw.
Yeah…I expect they will.
It’s interesting (though not surprising) that the one thing folks have latched onto from my post was the right to keep and bear arms. And that the few words I put out there have suddenly become giving citizens access to bazookas, rocket launchers, suicide vests (where do you usually buy those btw? Suicides R Us?) and nerve-gas (I suppose you could get some of that at Walmart or any other authorized dealer).
I gave a bare bones punch list and, well, the assumptions and rancor started to fly…
-XT
So on this island, children won’t be citizens? At what age does someone get citizenship?
There are always limits on the franchise, whether they are age or other. Full citizenship is rarely granted to babies or children. What age would full citizenship be granted to? What other restrictions on the franchise would there be? I have no idea…it would have to be voted on I guess. Myself I would probably limit the franchise at around the age of 16…though I could see society picking a much later age for it. And restricting other things by age as well.
-XT
In the United States, at least, everyone born in the US, or to US citizens, or naturalized, are full citizens, regardless of age. A newborn baby is as much a citizen as you are.
Can they vote? Buy alcohol? Own a gun? Go into a porn store?
-XT
I think xtisme is saying that people under a certain age wouldn’t be able to do things that all other citizens could do.
My $.05:
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Construct the government similar to the USA, as a liberal presidential republic through popular democracy with separation of powers and popular sovereignty. (For clarity, that means the people are the source of all power, and grant limited powers to the government.)
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Given the size of Esdeemba’s island, I support a unicameral legislature. Part of the legislature will be elected by population-balanced regions, and part of the legislature will be elected at-large.
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Given the projected population, the executive will be elected directly.
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No term limits at the national level. Instead, some balancing mechanism to ensure that contenders have adequate support to meaningfully challenge the incumbents.
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A two-level federal system (as opposed to the USA’s three-level system): National level and district level.
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A bill of rights, beginning with a clear restatement of the USA’s 9th and 10th amendments: The government is limited; rights not explicitly stated belong to the people.
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Respect Pastafarianism as the inspiring faith; there is no establishment religion, yet September 19 is a national holiday. (In exchange, December 25 is not a national holiday.)
No, which is why, if you want to adopt your policies, you should say “All citizens over the age of X will be allowed to vote” instead of “All citizens will be allowed to vote.”
I didn’t think I needed to do that as I know of no society in the history of man where all aspects of citizenship (or adulthood) were granted to babies or small children. There are always limitations on the franchise of citizenship (or just on full adulthood and the privileges and responsibilities that come with that alone).
So…all full citizens would have the rights I detailed. Children, babies and small furry animals would be excluded until they attain their majority (well, the small furry animals would never be granted full citizenship I suppose) and become full citizens with full citizenship privileges. This is not an exhaustive list (so, for example, reptiles would be excluded to…which would mean most politicians in the current US wouldn’t be eligible either)…there would probably be other limitations on the franchise depending on the citizens desires.
Ok?
-XT