Let's Debate Afghanistan In The Pit.

[adhay]

I say, fuck anyone who thinks we should be there.

Let’s start here.

@Uzi

Also, who’d be stupid enough to build one [oil pipeline] there [Afghanistan] given the history of the region?

[my answer, with some editing]

Anyone who has the US military at their disposal to secure it. And if that were our only purpose, we could immediately withdraw half our troops and turn the whole thing over to private contractors in a year or two.

But, there is more to the equation. You may have heard that heroin (poppies) is a big deal there. Behind oil and arms, drug trafficking is the worlds biggest industry and Afghanistan today produces over 90% of the world’s opium.

Prior to the year 2000, all thru the Clinton administration, it was just fine that the Taliban was the world’s largest heroin dealer and makin’ lots of money doing it. In 2000, the Taliban, to make their regime respectable to the world, banned poppy cultivation and by early 2001, poppies had all but been eradicated. Our ‘war’ on drugs should be so successful.

Then, conveniently, we had 9/11. We needlessly invaded Afghanistan (to kill US subsidized Saudis) and, within two years, poppy production was up to pre-invasion levels and has grown since. And, rolleyes, Hamid Karzai, the guy we recently democratically rolleyes installed as president was the Taliban’s chief drug lord. Anyone who has looked at the historical record of CIA involvement in drug trafficking to fund covert operations might see a correlation here.

Historically, US corporations, now in collaboration with Global Inc, have used the US military to establish and hold a global economic hegemony . This all out war on the world (with its huge human toll) benefits no one but those who arm and fuel it and those who profit peripherally.

Good night and good luck.

Fuck anyone who disagrees.

[PlainJain]

I have to think Obama doesn’t want to be there either but it would be political suicide to say so. I want us out.

[dmatsch]

You can’t get a good pizza in Afghanistan. Good pizza is the mark of a truly civilized culture. I mean, do you see any “Ghengis Khan Pizza - by the slice”? Or “Hitler Pies! Eat Fresh Today!”? I thought not.

Nuke the heathens and their so-called “72 pepperonis in heaven” crap.

[Lobohan]

To me there are these questions:

If we leave now will the Taliban take over again and allow free access to AQ camps and forces?

If the above does happen, how much will it endanger us?
From what I understand the answers to both those questions suck. I don’t see leaving before the drawdown date as an intelligent option.

[BobLibDem]

@Lobohan

To me there are these questions:

If we leave now will the Taliban take over again and allow free access to AQ camps and forces?

If the above does happen, how much will it endanger us?
From what I understand the answers to both those questions suck. I don’t see leaving before the drawdown date as an intelligent option.

They probably would take over and the camps would reappear. I say, so what? There is nothing wrong with a terrorist training camp that a tomahawk missile or predator drone wouldn’t fix. I’d much rather lob the occasional missile than continue to try to put Humpty Dumpty together.

[Lobohan]

@BobLibDem

They probably would take over and the camps would reappear. I say, so what? There is nothing wrong with a terrorist training camp that a tomahawk missile or predator drone wouldn’t fix. I’d much rather lob the occasional missile than continue to try to put Humpty Dumpty together.

Where do you suggest we get the intel on the location of these camps with an unfriendly government in place?

[gravitycrash]

Is that why the US is getting dicked in the ass by Karzai on a daily basis? And if big business is pulling the strings why are US companies getting shut out of the mineral rights game right now?

China is winning the bidding so far and they haven’t spilled a drop of blood in Afghanistan.
I guess US business isn’t bribing them enough.

[adhay]

Please, folks (fuck you all), let’s focus on Afghanistan as a typical extension of our corporate/govt policies since the govt declared corporations people with big feet and appetites.

Let’s stay with the OP, please, fuck you all.

[adhay]

@PlainJain

I have to think Obama doesn’t want to be there either but it would be political suicide to say so. I want us out.

You might know Evo as the popular indigenous president of Bolivia. Nice interview with Jon Stewart a while back.

Evo Morales in the New Yorker’s Lithium Dreams.

As for President Barack Obama, Morales said, “He’s trapped by the capitalist system and the structure of imperialism.” The only difference between Obama and his predecessor, he said, is that “one is gringo, the other is black.”

Fuck you all, one more time.

[adhay]

@dmatsch

You can’t get a good pizza in Afghanistan.

Listen, asshole, I know pizza because I grew up 30 mi out of Grand Central, NYC, the home of pizza.

It was Carlo’s, a mile and a half from my home. The only toppings offered were extra cheese and anchovies.

The first time I tried it, I ate the crust and loved it. But I noticed that my wealthier, pizza savvy friends left the rinds on the pan. I still do to this day.

Fuck you all.

[CaveMike]

@gravitycrash

China is winning the bidding so far and they haven’t spilled a drop of blood in Afghanistan.
I guess US business isn’t bribing them enough.

Agreed. There was a piece on NPR related to the recent announcement of Afganistan’s natural resources. The gist was that American companies cannot beat Asian (China, India, etc.) companies at securing these contracts simply because American companies cannot afford the risk. In many cases, there are legal restrictions that will simply not allow American companies to participate.

[adhay]

@Lobohan

… If we leave now will the Taliban take over again and allow free access to AQ camps and forces?

The Taliban has proven, if you will look again at the OP, that they are willing to comply with global restrictions on drug abuse. I do not doubt that the Taliban would welcome an offer from the US that in exchange for an honest pain killer monopoly, they would welcome a US military presence on the Pakistani border.

Fuck you all and get used to some human rights violations for a while. We have our liberalizing foot in the door.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

@adhay

Then, conveniently, we had 9/11.

Yes, 9/11 was quite “convenient” for all those that died, the people that live(d) and work(ed) in NYC and the Pentagon, their families and friends.

Interesting perspective.

Oh, you mean “politically convenient”, ie, as a ruse under which to launch a “needless” war in a country where terrorists actively trained, were funded with bin Laden money, hid out and plotted against us?

The Iraq war was the “needless” one. The Afghanistan war, while still a murky proposition in some ways, was at least justifiable.

[adhay]

@FoieGrasIsEvil

… The Afghanistan war, while still a murky proposition in some ways, was at least justifiable.

For 9 fucking years?

Fuck you, personally.

[EVIL_COW_PIE]

@BobLibDem

They probably would take over and the camps would reappear. I say, so what? There is nothing wrong with a terrorist training camp that a tomahawk missile or predator drone wouldn’t fix. I’d much rather lob the occasional missile than continue to try to put Humpty Dumpty together.

I agree. It’s the difference between leaving a hornet’s nest alone and beating it with a stick, except in this case we are killing a lot of stick swingers in the process. Not to mention we are wasting a shit load of very expensive sticks and the billions of dollars delivering those sticks.

Keep in mind that this isn’t Nazi Germany we are fighting where you kill one guy and the whole thing topples. These cells acting independently are recruiting new kids every day. There is no winning and walking away. Just can’t happen.

[adhay]

@EVIL_COW_PIE

… These cells acting independently are recruiting new kids every day. There is no winning and walking away.

Sure there is.

I outlined it above.

Fuck you, personally.

[Muffin]

Thomas Barnett at TED in 2005 on Leviathan v. Sys Admin: http://www.ted.com/talks/thomas_barnett_draws_a_new_map_for_peace.html

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

@adhay

For 9 fucking years?

Fuck you, personally.

Well, if the Bush administration hadn’t screwed the pooch by launching a stupid war in Iraq and instead had devoted those resources wasted there to Afghanistan instead from the outset, maybe it wouldn’t have taken this long to establish the security that we are finally starting to experience now. You know, after finally and very recently committing the kinds of boots on the ground and support for them that should have been there all along.

[BobLibDem]

@Lobohan

Where do you suggest we get the intel on the location of these camps with an unfriendly government in place?

Satellites, drone flyovers. I’m sure there will be ways to get in touch with informants.

[Lobohan]

@BobLibDem

Satellites, drone flyovers. I’m sure there will be ways to get in touch with informants.

So we’re gonna do drone flyovers of a hostile country? Where will they refuel from and be based from? Pakistan? I suppose they’d be happy if most of the drones were flying the other way.

In any case, I’m not an intelligence officer, but I’m pretty sure you need intel to focus your satellites, you can’t just search the whole country.