Much like the Borg, Jedi and Sith alike would surely be best dealt with by a guy with a machine gun.
If you try to stop the bullets with the Force or your sabre, there’s a lot more following them and should you try to hit them with your sabre, you’ll spray yourself with molten lead instead.
Okay, let’s assume this is correct, and if I avoid nitpicking or fanwanking we can.
Then my original criticism is correct; none of what happen in the Phantom Menace is relevant. If Darth Maul’s fate means nothing, then the duel means nothing. The duel is without significance for Maul or for the general effort on either side of the war, and so is pointless and lacks emotional meaning and impact.
You claim the reason Maul is there is to kill, personally, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. Well, that’s interesting… but why, and what does it have to do with the rest of the movie? There’s no mention at all of a history between Maul and Qui-Gon. There’s no indication that Qui-Gon is a figurehead or hero that Maul would use as the target of a general hatred of the Jedi.
I mean, I’m not just picking at nits; that’s the way it looked and thats the way it felt. That’s why people are “meh” about The Phantom Menace, but were koo koo for Cocoa Puffs about the original trilogy. In The Empire Strikes Back, when Luke and Darth Vader are fighting, goddamnit that felt like it meant something. Both men had an agenda. You had dramatic irony, in that the audience knew Vader had an agenda Luke was unaware of. You had a grudge which was brilliantly turned on its head. You had the sense of overwhelming menace and threat and that Luke was out of his league. The scene is chock full of emotion and tension. The duel in TPM is just “look, a shiny light saber duel.” It’s not more dramatically interesting than the Youtube video of “Dorkman” and the other guy having a light saber duel.
More generally, the problem with the “Palpatine wins no matter what” approach is that the war on Naboo is the entire A-line story of the film. The film’s A plot (the B plot is finding Anakin) centres around the tension of the invasion and whether Naboo will be liberated. We have scenes of Sidious and the Trade Federation guys making operational decisions on how best to defeat the Naboo and the Gungans. If what you’re saying is that Palpatine’s plan succeeds anyway, then none of that matters. If it DOES matter, then logically none of it makes sense and the movie’s full of stuff that seems disconnected from other stuff - why the hell is Sidious so obsessed with having Amidala sign a treaty? If so, why isn’t she made to sign it when she’s captured? Why will the Gungan army’s assault “work to our advantage,” as Sidious puts it? Why does he bother to order Maul to murder Amidala on Tatooine if it’s irrelevant whether she gets to Coruscant or not? Is Maul so expendable that Sidious/Palpatine is willing to expend him on a mission of zero importance?
I would not disagree.
Nothing much. He just hates Jedi. It’s not explained.
Yes I agree completely.
Yup, not disagreeing.
Remember, he’s playing all sides. We know his real identity; the Trade Fed does not. He doesn’t give a rat’s ass about Naboo, but it’s a useful stepping stone to his plans. Yes, t’s more important to the heroes than the villain. But I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having it revealed over time that in the First Act, the heroes played ultimately into the villain’s hands. Their actions led to Palpatine’s ultimate downfall, after all.
Now, Palpatine wasn’t neccessarily going to win no matter what, but it was too late to stop this particular plot when the movie began. And in the sequels, he advanced his position was but was not yet invincible and could still have been stopped. He’s just very good at altering his plans to match momentary setbacks.
No, he clearly does not want Amidala around. She’s a invasive pest and seems to keep complicating his plans. He’d prefer to have her as a martyr, but was capable of altering his plans to succeed anyway. The irritating thing here is that there’s a perfectly logical explanation, except the damn movie doesn’t cover it!
This is a good site to see the concept. Yes, it’s something of a fanwank, but one which makes a lot of sense and I think is a clear implication. No, we don’t know everything Palpatine planned, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t:
I never understood why anybody thought the lightsaber fights in TPM were cool. I think they were the most disappointing thing about that movie while I was watching it the first time. It was totally obvious to me even at normal speed that the whole thing was ridiculously choreographed. There was way too much pointless spinning and twirling that didn’t even look threatening. It looked like a Jedi dance routine. And there was obviously no way for Maul to defend against two opponents on opposite sides of him unless either he either moved much faster than either of them or the opponents colluded in timing their blows to avoid hitting him. And it was totally obvious that he wasn’t moving any faster than either of them, and that they were avoiding hitting him. That’s not just stage fighting technique, that’s extremely poor stage fighting technique that doesn’t create the illusion of a real fight.
Like others have said, compare it to the fight in ANH. That wasn’t any more realistic in terms of what real-life sword fighting would look like, but at least it looked like the characters were trying to hit one another! (Well, at least one of them, anyway.)
Given all the special effects, CGI and editing tools available to them in making TPM, they should have easily been able to make it look like the characters were at least aiming for one another’s bodies, not their swords or the air around them. It’s not like they were on a live stage with heavy wooden swords! There’s no reason NOT to have the actors aim for each other, at least in a few well framed shots!
The weaponry used in LARP has fiberglass cores which keep them rigid surrounded by enough rubber to ensure you need Superman’s strength to hurt someone.
That’s the downside of “the Rule of Two”. Just about the time you get one apprentice all spun up, another guy comes along that you like better. Now you’ve got to make a choice.
I think your mistake is to assume the plan that happens is the plan that Palpatine really wanted. Just because the results worked out giving Palpatine is primary goal (the Chancellorship) doesn’t mean the steps along the way were what he desired. He could be a master at that tv_tropes thing (some kind of Chess), or it could be that he is just really adept at manipulating the changes to work to his advantage. As long as he set the situation up well enough. The primary thing in his favor is that his plan relies on the inherent weakness of the system. He is not creating the confusion and ineffectiveness of the Galactic Senate - that is just something he is exploiting for his own benefit. Sure, he is playing it up, and manipulating the situation to point more blame at the current Chancellor, but he picked that method precisely because it’s already true, so it’s easy to get everyone to agree.
What if that isn’t his original goal? What if a protracted war on Naboo isn’t the territory for his move? What if he wants the Trade Federation to swoop in, assume control, force the Princess to sign the treaty, then conveniently have her murdered before the outside world finds out. Then the fait accompli is announced, and the Senate leadership shows beaureaucratic stagnation over what to do about it. He plays to the crowd about how his homeworld was invaded and how they murdered the sweet innocent Princess, and how the Senate is powerless and ineffective at providing any protection or sense of justice. For grins, while the first part of the political mess is being argued in the Senate, he sends the Trade Federation against another world, setting up the appearance that the Trade Federation is on a spree, and the Senate under the current Chancellor is powerless. His political might is equally strengthened, and blame falls on the Chancellor for his connections to the Trade Federation, and the overthrow of Naboo and murder of the Princess provides the same emotional motivation he relies on for his own sympathy vote to power.
For this plan to work, he relies on speed of the invasion, secrecy from the outside world, and definite lack of interference of the Jedi. Because if the Jedi get involved in the negotiations, they drag out the situation and prevent the master plan of presenting a completed take over. Only the thing is, Qui Gon doesn’t play along, and refuses to get murdered. And he and Obi-wan sneak onto Naboo, enlist the support of the Gungans, and get to the Princess first, where they effect her escape.
Oops, no completed invasion, no dead Princess. Well, stall, create lots of injustice, and make sure the Princess doesn’t reach the Galactic Senate alive. Then play up the Senate’s mishandling, and rely on the elements of the strategy that still work.
It’s about adapting as the situation changes rather than relying on a single original plan, because as the saying goes, “No battle plan ever survives first contact with the enemy.”
Well, it may ultimately not change the end result for Palpatine, but it certainly means something for the players involved. Darth Maul and Qui-gon both had something to lose in that duel.
No argument here. TPM was somewhat entertaining when I saw it in the theater, but how much of that was the excitement of the film vs. the anticipation of new Star Wars material? Certainly the post-movie criticism makes the flaws easier to reflect on.
Also, getting him “all spun up” means your apprentice now wants to recruit a strong-in-the-force guy to destroy you, and so will rapidly pitch lots of stuff in hopes that one sticks: complete your training … end this destructive conflict … if you only knew the power of the dark side … it is your destiny … join me and together, we can rule the galaxy…
Nah, that’s not due to the Rule of Two, that’s just the natural outcome of the Dark Side. Once you’re willing to be a treacherous, villainous, evil backstabbing bastard, it’s only natural for you to look at your mentor and think, “Why am I taking orders from this clown?” Doesn’t matter if there are only two or two billion.
Crap, maybe the Rule of Two does make sense. Instead of having to watch out for billions of evil, treacherous bastards, you just have to keep your eyes on one.