[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir]
Although I agree we shouldn’t insult him, I would note that, if Robert Heinlein had his way (as described in Starship Troopers), the guy would never be able to vote or hold public office.
[/QUOTE]
If I had my way, nobody would ever be able to quote Robert Heinlein as anything but a producer of medium-quality entertainment.
[QUOTE=Brain Wreck]
If I had my way, nobody would ever be able to quote Robert Heinlein as anything but a producer of medium-quality entertainment.
[/QUOTE]
Duly noted. Let me know when you run for President, wouldya? :dubious:
I don’t know how things work down there, but even if no one comes after him and he is not charged it could be impossible for him to ever work in government.
Maybe not a big deal now, but when that perfect job is out there and it’s a federal position that dumb choice he/she made as a recruit will bite him in the butt.
[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor]
I think dropping a few bucks on a lawyer is the best advice we can give Improv Geek.
[/QUOTE]
Um, no, not according to the responses above…
and re: Heinlin’s Starship Troopers: Although heralded by some as one of his better works, it’s a standalone novel that he didn’t fit into his various future histories in any way, even after he started blending them in Number of the Beast; the military meritocracy he posited in that novel was not necessarily his idea of the right way to run a government (note that in his other novels, most of his main characters want absolutely nothing to do with politics); rather, it was his idea of one way a government could be run for a world which had been engaged in a war in space for several years.
Second what Paul in Saudi said. The only action by the service is to enter his name in the national crime database.
Present at a case of UA (Navy for AWOL) where the guy was caught, then the Navy refused to come get him 'cause no wanted to bother, so the cops let him go. The big lawyer todo was about when his UA stopped (the first time he was caught.)
Heard (could be UL) another case was a guy who worked at the shipyard as a civilian for 20 yrs, retired, then turned himself in.
Anyway, I’d take a page from Crusty the Clown and wait until there is a Democrat in the White House before turning myself in.
I’ve never heard of the Trainee Discharge Program. During my years in the military, the expression was Entry Level Separtion.
[QUOTE=Orihara]
In which army?
[/QUOTE]
The US Army. I believe that’s where Paul did his service after all.
Go talk to an Army recruiter and ask him what Basic will be like. BTW, I work at BASIC training, so I’d say that I have a pretty good current first hand knowledge of what goes on here.
Any relatives go through Army Basic recently?
Tomorrow we will have about 6000 Basic Training Privates returning from their two week Christmas Vacation. Yeah, that’s right, I said TWO WEEK vacation. At BASIC Training…
Anyway, of the couple hundred from my battalion, I’ll bet at least 2 dont return tomorrow. I’ll be sure to let you know. Not too hard to go AWOL when all you have to do is not come back.
And FWIW, there is no “Basic Training Seperation” or whatever you were saying.
[quote=Also, Bear, pussy is kind of harsh, considering he did voulenteer, but was not able to be a soldier.[/quote]
Fuck that. BASIC is not the time to decide whether you want to be a soldier. One should not have the attitude of “well, I’ll go try it and see if I like it. If not, I can just leave when I feel like it”
That’s hardly volunteering. He should either make the committment or not sign up. If he hates it, he needs to suck it up and finish what he started. He can get out after the enlistment is up.
[QUOTE=Improv Geek]
So this morning an IM pops up from a friend who I thought had gone into the military. As it turns out, he apparently went AWOL a week into bootcamp. Does my knowing this mean I need to contact uncle sam? Is it criminal for me not to?
– IG
[/QUOTE]
B TW, when do you think he left for ‘Boot Camp’. And what service did he join?
Are you sure he is really AWOL and not just messing with you? Was he serious? Could he have been kidding?
I just had a thought that maybe he’s just on leave for the holidays and thought it would be funny to say he was AWOL.
When I used to drive home on random weekends (not while at BASIC of course) I would jokingly say to friends I ran into that I was AWOL or “snuck out” or things like that.
Possible he was kidding?
And to clear up something from my post above. I’m not trying to say that Army Basic training is easy or even easier than it once was. Its just that the priorities have changed a bit. Privates get much, much more actual training and learning. More shooting and less boot polishing. More combat skills and less Drill and Ceremony skills. They do get more luxaries like internet and email. But what is email except modern day correspondence? Soldiers have always been given the oppurtunity to write letters so it’s not all that different. Allowing them to email isn’t degrading their training.
And as far as going AWOL, it is an all volunteer Army. No one is chained to his bed at night. There is an ATM machine on site and pleanty of cabs. It’s not difficult at all.
[QUOTE=Bear_Nenno]
And FWIW, there is no “Basic Training Seperation” or whatever you were saying.
[/QUOTE]
If you are enlisted less than 180 days, you can be granted an uncharacterized discharge under the category “entry level separation”. This is probably what he was talking about. Generally 180 days would cover basic + AIT.
[QUOTE=Bear_Nenno]
I just had a thought that maybe he’s just on leave for the holidays and thought it would be funny to say he was AWOL.
…
Possible he was kidding?
[/QUOTE]
I think we have a winner. The entire Basic Training Thing shuts down for Christmas. Every single soldier who wants to gets released all across the country at the same time. Your amigo is almost certainly on leave.
[QUOTE=Bear_Nenno]
Go talk to an Army recruiter and ask him what Basic will be like. BTW, I work at BASIC training, so I’d say that I have a pretty good current first hand knowledge of what goes on here.
Any relatives go through Army Basic recently?
[/quote]
Nope. Nor anybody who’s done Air Force Basic either. Just the Marine Corps and the Navy in my family. I’ll happily take your first hand experience as a cite for Army Basic.
I’m curious, though, if you don’t mind expanding a bit – when I say “Boot Camp,” I mean the ~2 months of initial training that recruits get. In the Navy and Marine Corps that training is extremely restrictive. While nobody is chained to their racks, every minute of every day is pretty much accounted for. They sleep in big open rooms filled with bunks; they march as a group to every appointment, including meals; there is a guard (admittedly a fellow recruit) on the doors at night. During this initial period, you get mail privileges, but very limited phone privileges and no access to the internet at all. There is no leave (vacation) given during this period and no unsupervised time off except for one or 2 days of liberty (sometimes including an overnight) given at the very end of training. Other than that day or two of liberty, it would be really hard to just walk out without anybody noticing.
Now, after that 2 months of initial training, the recruit goes on to further training – either general training or specialized. Things are a lot less restrictive during that phase – you could have a cell phone or a computer, if you wanted; you get liberty every night you don’t have duty and can leave Base if you want to; you can take leave if you need it, etc. It would be fairly easy to go UA from this phase of training.
So. Are you saying that, in the Army, they never have this extremely restrictive 2-month period of initial training?
I did mean the Entry Level Separation that several others have mentioned. This separation is only available during the first 180 days of service. It’s the kind of separation my brother-in-law got 30 years ago, when he dropped out of Navy Boot Camp. He didn’t desert, he just couldn’t stand it and they sent him home. With this sort of separation, you get no VA benefits – it’s just like you never enlisted at all, except there is a flag on your record and you can’t enlist later (even into another service), even if you want to. You might be able to get a waiver, though, I’m not sure about that. From what I saw at this site: GI Rights.org, it looks as if that separation wouldn’t be available for someone who deserted, though.
Finally, the OP’s buddy might be interested in that GI Rights website I linked above – there is info there for people who are looking to get out of their service.
[QUOTE=Jess]
So. Are you saying that, in the Army, they never have this extremely restrictive 2-month period of initial training?
[/QUOTE]
Unlike the Marine Corps, Army Basic Training is very much dependant on your job. From what I know in the Marines, everyone–even combat arms–goes to the same Boot Camp. And then everyone goes off to individual training from there.
In the Army, there is a Basic Combat Training for the majority of job titles.
Other jobs, like Infantry and armor and some others, are segragated from others at the very start. They do their basic and advanced training at the same place all in one shot. And they aren’t mixed with other job skills.
So, while medics, water purifiers, secrataries and trumpet players may all be in the same Basic together, none of them would go through basic with any infantry guys.
The point, I guess, is that not everyone in the US Army has the same Basic training experience.
Army Basic is 9 weeks long, but the soldiers are only on total restrictive control for about three weeks. After that, they are trusted to walk to various appointments or catch the shuttle bus to the hospital for exams, etc. They always have to have a buddy. But it’s not uncommon at all to see small, unsupervised groups of privates walking around.
After that first three weeks, they get some morale time and go to concerts, hockey games, special events and that sort of thing. They are supervised at these events, but that is to say they are escorted to and from, and there are Drill Sergeants on site the whole time.
But they are pretty much free to roam when they get there. They’re not forced to have fun by the numbers.
Soldiers here are not allowed cell phones. But I hear they’re allowed at Jackson. And it is rumored to be changed here soon as well. Either way, they wouldn’t be able to use them or even carry them around during training or during the day. But I guess they use them at night before bed or something. During the time they would normally be writing letters.
Internet Access comes in the form of Pay per Minute computers at the Shoppette. It’s ridiculously expensive for them. I think the greatest evil is not that they are allowed internet access, but that they are charged so much for it.
This access is through a pretty restrictive NetNanny (or whatever they’re called) so they can’t look at porn or the like. They’re supposed to be watched while on the computers, but at the same time, they are taking care of banking and stuff, so it’s not like you can just stare at their screens. The computers are mainly used for personal matters, email, finances, MySpace, and Video Chatting with friends/relatives.
They do sleep in large open bays here. But The battalions I saw at Ft Leonard Wood were individual rooms with beds for 4 or 6. More like dorms over there.
Also, while most Basic Training is coed, Basic at Ft Benning is not. The only thing that’s uniform across the service for Basic is the training Tasks and Hours of Instruction.
[QUOTE=Bear_Nenno]
Unlike the Marine Corps, Army Basic Training is very much dependant on your job. From what I know in the Marines, everyone–even combat arms–goes to the same Boot Camp. And then everyone goes off to individual training from there.
In the Army, there is a Basic Combat Training for the majority of job titles.
Other jobs, like Infantry and armor and some others, are segragated from others at the very start. They do their basic and advanced training at the same place all in one shot. And they aren’t mixed with other job skills.
So, while medics, water purifiers, secrataries and trumpet players may all be in the same Basic together, none of them would go through basic with any infantry guys.
The point, I guess, is that not everyone in the US Army has the same Basic training experience.
[/quote]
Is this new? When I went thru Army basic training in the 60’s, EVERYONE got the same initial (8-week?) training, whether destined for OCS or Band later. We even had an ex-sergeant who had been a civilian for a while, then re-enlisted and had to take it all over again.
Dont know when it started. For more reading, Google the words “ARMY OSUT” and “ARMY BASIC”.
FWIW, OCS Candidates and Band people do go to Basic together. Along with hundreds of others. But they dont go to Basic with infantry or armor. All OSUTs (One Station Unit Training) are job specific.
I used to command a Basic Training company at Fort Leonard Wood. We gave all the odd-job types 8 (9?) weeks of basic. Truck drivers, weathermen, baritones (yep, no kidding) all went through our program together. Then they got sent along to their AIT (Advanced Individual Training) for various lengths and various places.
Jobs with a large number of soldiers (infantrymen, combat engineers, tankers) all do the nine weeks and go on to AIT in the same place. It is easier that way.
So everyone in the Army goes to basic rifle marksmanship, does the road marches and all that. Then they go on to other things too.
I still you say the person mentioned in the OP was pulling you leg. He was on Christmas break.
Thanks, Bear_Nenno, that was informative. I didn’t realize that Army Basic had evolved so far away from the Navy and the Marine Corps experience. I wonder about Air Force Basic?
And speaking of the prior service ex-sergeant, I had a guy in my OSUT class who was a prior E-5 in Ranger Battalion. He had been out for like 6 years so he had to do initial training all over again and was starting as an E-2 private. He stood out in formation with the Ranger Tab, CIB, and Combat Jump Wings (all from Panama)
Yep, that happens, they take it with good grace. Where you at?
OSUT is a training program which combines both the Basic Combat Training (BCT) and MOS-producing school in one station, thus the name: One Station Unit Training. The MOS-producing training is, of course, dependent on the job for which enlisted; however, the BCT portion is identical to BCT that is not tied to OSUT.
I don’t have much in the way of dealing with deserters, but when I was a Section Commander (an Army/USMC “XO”), we had one guy that was AWOL, but because of his infractions, we didn’t have jurisdiction–Air Force OSI picked the guy up at home because he “didn’t have enough money to get to base” and was suspected of running pot and heroin in the meantime.
I will say that I’ve seen a few other ‘aggravating factors’ that will play into an AWOL case:
I’m just sayin’, it’s a bigger picture than just “Private Joe didn’t show up for work.”
Tripler
I’m just sayin’, ya know. . .