Lets talk about tummy fat, and how to get rid of it.

[alice_in_wonderland]

@Epimetheus

Small nitpick, sorry cant resist: While there is an upper portion of the abdominal muscle, there is only one abdominal musle. You might be aware of this, but I am only brining it up because you keep refering to abdominal muscles, the plural, which suggests, to me, that you see them as being multiple muscles.

Well, I suppose if we’re picking nits, this site, and every anatomy class I’ve ever taken tend to suggest that you’re totally incorrect.

If it helps for clarity - my lower obliques and lower rectus abdominus show quite nicely. My upper obliques and upper rectus abdominus have a layer of pooch over them - my ribs show, but only on the outside of my torso.

[aruvqan]

@Epimetheus

Small nitpick, sorry cant resist: While there is an upper portion of the abdominal muscle, there is only one abdominal musle. You might be aware of this, but I am only brining it up because you keep refering to abdominal muscles, the plural, which suggests, to me, that you see them as being multiple muscles.

? There is too more than one muscle sheathing the abdominal area on a human …

There are many muscles both internal and external in the area…

http://www.bartleby.com/107/118.html

So, let me see if I understand it correctly, I think she means her obliquuous externis muscles, left and right, are well toned, but her obliquuous internis, left and right, needs a bit more work.

If it is the externis, leg lifts, and the style of leg lifts where you draw your knee towards the opposing shoulder. If it is the internis, you do crunches, both straight and the ones where you twist your torso.

Of course you can always take belly dance and learn to do stomach isolations and work each group separately=)

[alice_in_wonderland]

@aruvqan

Of course you can always take belly dance and learn to do stomach isolations and work each group separately=)

Been there, done that, have the belly chains.

As I suggested earlier (I thought) this isn’t a muscle issue, or a lack of muscle issue. This is a fat issue. I could do crunches till the cows come home and it’s not going to help this particular problem.

I think perhaps merge is the only poster in this thread that has any idea what I’m talking about. THis is probably because my posts are clear as mud.

Anyhow - if you look at this picutre, from the tendinous inscription down, I’m doing fine. From the tendinous inscription up I have a small layer of fat going out to around the middle of my boobs. (Incidentally, the pooch that I’m complaining about is NOT my boobs. - I read that last line and thought it sounded a bit like that.)

[Epimetheus]

Yes, I wasn’t refering to the obliques, I was refering to what people term the “abs” the Rectus Abdominus. The Transverse abdominus is underneath the obliques and is not seen.

She was referring to the “top” part of her Abdominal, by top I assume she means anterior, towards the head, which is still part of the Rectus Abdominus. The “Ab” muscle she was refering to, and which there is only one “muscle.”

See here: http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/RectusAbdominis.html

[Epimetheus]

@alice_in_wonderland

Been there, done that, have the belly chains.

I think perhaps merge is the only poster in this thread that has any idea what I’m talking about. THis is probably because my posts are clear as mud.

Oh yeah, I didn’t mention topicals before merge did or anything.

:rolleyes:

[alice_in_wonderland]

@Epimetheus

Oh yeah, I didn’t mention topicals before merge did or anything.

:rolleyes:

Well, apparently I missed that - oh yes, a vague reference to topicals. Right.

In any case, it seems that you don’t actually know what you’re talking about. There are two rectus abdominal muscles with a seam going down the middle. Pregnant women are advised not to work their abdominal muscles because the rectus abdominals seperate during pregnancy to allow the belly to protrude. Every anatomy course I’ve ever taken supports this, as does every anatomical drawing I’ve ever seen. If you have some sort of substantive proof that there is, in fact, only one rectus abdominal muscle, I would be very interested in seeing it.

[Epimetheus]

Ah, so you change your mind! Good job. Going from “there is a top and bottom” abdominal, to “there is a right and left abdominal.” Which is wrong as well. The muscle is only seperated superficially by ligaments. They are still the same muscle, as evidenced by every link in this thread that shows an abdominal muscle. Notice how the Recuts Abdominus is not referred to as the Right Rectus Abdominus and Left Rectus Abdominus?

I spend quite a bit of time learning anatomy, and while the closest I have come to an anatomy class is General Zoology, and over a year and a half of bodybuilding, I think it is apparent that I have a greater understanding of anatomy than you. At least in regards to this. Unless of course you wish to prove me wrong with a simple “cite” with a picture showing that the Rectus Abdominus is more than one muscle.

[Epimetheus]

From this cite: http://www.protraineronline.com/past/march2000/protrainer9.cfm

Myth 2: You need to focus on upper and lower abdominal exercises.

There are no “upper” or “lower” abdominals. As a matter of fact, it is not even appropriate to pluralize abdominal (as I am guilty of doing in this article for literary effect in a few places). The rectus abdominis is one muscle that originates at the lower end of the anterior aspect of the rib cage and inserts at the pelvis. The reason for the washboard like indentations in the rectus abdominis result from tendonous inscriptions that cross the muscle and tug at it like a tight net.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Nice try. I have fat over the upper part of my abdominals. I have no fat over the lower part of my abdominals.

[url"=http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=www.peterboroughhospitals.co.uk/images/abdo_muscles.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.peterboroughhospitals.co.uk/ourservices/Pregancy_guide/Leaflets/30-40wks/sep_abdo_musc.htm&h=968&w=1560&sz=60&tbnid=NAqsoWwwTnYJ:&tbnh=93&tbnw=149&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dabdominal%2Bmuscles%2B%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DG]Here is a drawing of the rectus abdominal muscles after childbirth.

A quote from that page says:

As the body’s ligaments soften during pregnancy the Linea Alba (a tendon) also softens and it is quite common for the two Recti Abdominis muscles to separate.

If you can explaine to me how one muscle can totally seperate to allow a pregnant belly to poke through, I would be thrilled.

In any case - this has no bearing whatsoever on my tummy fat. Regardless of if I have 1 abdominal muscle, or 10 abdominal muscle, I have fat over said muscles that I’m interested in getting rid of. So, unless you have some suggestions to that end, leave it alone.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Grrr.

The link:

http://www.peterboroughhospitals.co.uk/ourservices/Pregancy_guide/Leaflets/30-40wks/sep_abdo_musc.htm

[Epimetheus]

Ok, this is getting odd, and I agree, I will drop it after this last post.

According to some surfing the web, cites like this one show both speak as the rectus Abdominis as ONE muscle, but also talk about it split into two parts. Very odd.

There are four important paired muscles in the anterior abdominal wall: three flat muscles (external oblique, internal oblique, and transversus abdominis) and one strap-like muscle (rectus abdominis).

And Yet, from the same site:

*  The two muscles are separated by the linea alba and lie close together inferiorly.
* The rectus abdominis is three times as wide superiorly as it is inferiorly.
* The lateral border of the rectus muscles and its sheath are convex and form a clinical important surface marking known as the linea semilunaris.

I would take a wild assed guess and say that the muscle meets before it reaches its insertion points somewhere, which could classify it as a single muscle. Otherwise It each muscle would have to have its own distintion, like right or left rectus, or some such distinction.

As for your “problem” I assumed by making a reference to topical gels, and being a doper that you are, could put two and two together and do a simple google search, sorry I couldn’t suggest a particular brand, I have never actually used them, but have known people that have.

[Lissla_Lissar]

If it’s only one muscle, how come they (different bits)can be moved independently? I can do belly rolls that require expanding and contracting different parts of the abdomen at different times. I can’t make separate parts of any other muscle move independently.

(belly rolls, undulations- bellydance term)

[Epimetheus]

By contracting other muscles, obliques and back muscles in varying patterns.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Dude - this is your quote:

There are four important paired muscles in the anterior abdominal wall: three flat muscles (external oblique, internal oblique, and transversus abdominis) and one strap-like muscle (rectus abdominis).

To parse a little:

There are four paired muscles in the abdominal wall, three flat muscles and one strap like muscle.

This quite plainly suggests that the rectus abdominus is paired. Furthermore, from your own site:

The Rectus Abdominis Muscle (p. 136)

This is a long, broad, strap-like muscle and is the principle vertical muscle of the anterior abdominal wall.
Origin: pubic symphysis and pubic crest.
Insertion: xiphoid process and 5th to 7th costal cartilages.
innervation: ventral rami of inferior six thoracic nerves.
The two muscles are separated by the linea alba and lie close together inferiorly.

Your own site says that there are two recti abdominus muscles. Clearly and in every instance. You are incorrect, and there’s no citation out there that will suggest otherwise.

[Epimetheus]

Yes, did you not say how I said it was odd. It is a geocities cite, however, and hard to trust. I already showed you several cites (that you probably didn’t bother to read), that have said that it is a single muscle. I am still looking into this because your explanation is not sufficient. It is a single muscle, because if it were not it would have distinctions in its name.

You are making poor assumptions, but that is not for this thread, and I will drop it, however, you are probably wrong, you did, after all talk about spot reduction as a fact, so your knowledge of human physiology is not as godlike as you would like to believe.

[Epimetheus]

And you are wrong, see here:

Medical Definition of Rectus abdominis

Rectus abdominis: A large muscle in the front of the abdomen that assists in the regular breathing movement and supports the muscles of the spine while lifting and keeping abdominal organs such as the intestines in place. The rectus abdominis plays a key role in “sit-ups.”

Rectus means straight. The rectus abdominis is a straight abdominal muscle. It is sometimes simply called the rectus.

bolding mine- A suggests singular. A single muscle. So you are wrong, there are citations that suggest otherwise.

[merge]

@alice_in_wonderland

Some women are thin and fit with saddle bags. I’m thin and fit with a little tummy pooch.

I might look into the products that merge has recommened. I currently am using AbdoChoc which feels great when you put it on and I think I may have noticed a small difference (I’ve only been using it for about 2 weeks so that may not be enough time). I was just wondering if there was any sort of supplement that people had used with success. FWIW, I’ve had some success with Siberian Gensing - unfortunatly it really upsets my stomach, and I get hot flashes when I’m taking it, which is kind of a drag, given the fact that I’m only 31.

I have never heard of abdoChoc… do you know what it contains?
I have had some success with Yohimbe, but I had some dizzyness/nausea while taking it by itself… I now use Tight! by S.A.N which also contains Yohimbe, and works really well…

If you are looking for a quick fix, I have used Taraxatone (basically a diuretic), and that tightens me up for a few days. It doesn’t last that long as your body rehydrates itself, and I wouldn’t recommend using that too often, but it works. (before I go to the beach )

but it sounds like Lipoderm Ultra is what you would be looking for… That is used primarily for fat that is above your muscle, between the muscle and skin.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Epimetheus, could you come here for a moment?

[alice_in_wonderland]

@merge

I have never heard of abdoChoc… do you know what it contains?
I have had some success with Yohimbe, but I had some dizzyness/nausea while taking it by itself… I now use Tight! by S.A.N which also contains Yohimbe, and works really well…

If you are looking for a quick fix, I have used Taraxatone (basically a diuretic), and that tightens me up for a few days. It doesn’t last that long as your body rehydrates itself, and I wouldn’t recommend using that too often, but it works. (before I go to the beach )

but it sounds like Lipoderm Ultra is what you would be looking for… That is used primarily for fat that is above your muscle, between the muscle and skin.

The only ingredient that I know of for sure in the Abdochoc is chocolate which is suppose to drain fat, apparently.

I think I’ll look into the Lipoderm Ultra - I’m going to hunt for a website right now…

[alice_in_wonderland]

@angelicate

I also got a Veg Times magazine at about that time that gave a bunch of vegetarian recipes that were suitable for the diet. If you would be interested in trying them, I could send you the magazine, I’ve still got it sitting around.

Yes please. My e-mail is in my profile.

Also, for the cardio proponents - I actually do 40 minutes of cardio (walking, briskly, breaking a sweat) 6 days a week, and I take my dog for “Power Walks” for about an hour 4 or 5 days a week.

I am somewhat limited in what sort of exercise I can do because of back issues. (Running, for instance, is out.)