Let's teach girls to put up with violent boys

Really? You did let your ass hang out.

You are desperately and uniformly trying to make your personal problem in high school into some massive problem, and paint all teachers as clueless and neglectful at best and downright negligent and mean at worst. How can I agree with that when I know it’s just not true?

Bullying happens. Of course it does. It’s part of the human condition. It can’t be completely ended, consider that it also happens in adulthood. What I can’t advocate is hitting people if there’s any other way to deal with it. Your insistence that there’s no other way is shrill and just plain wrong. It does no service to kids to give them that message. Violence is the LAST resort, not the best and only option. Can you possibly disagree with that? Would I be a laudable and honorable teacher if said otherwise?

Wow. Complete inability. But I’m desperately and uniformily claiming something? You people are incapable of forming a sensible argument if you must continue to resort to insults and hyperbole.

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
Really? You did let your ass hang out.

Bullying happens. Of course it does. It’s part of the human condition. It can’t be completely ended, consider that it also happens in adulthood. What I can’t advocate is hitting people if there’s any other way to deal with it. Your insistence that there’s no other way is shrill and just plain wrong. It does no service to kids to give them that message. Violence is the LAST resort, not the best and only option. Can you possibly disagree with that? Would I be a laudable and honorable teacher if said otherwise?
QUOTE]
Well, I had a teacher that dealt perfectly with my bullying situation. I had been quietly and physically bullied in sixth grade. I felt I had no one to turn to. I actually wrote my teacher an anonymous note saying that I was being bullied, pretending to be a classmate. When she got the letter she pulled me aside discreetly, talked to me. She talked to the girl in question and the situation stopped that day.

I actually learned that day that I had power in my pen and that I could turn to people for help. I did not resort to violence and I was able to deal with the situation.

Does everyone’s situation end as happily as mine? No. But it is absurd to think it can’t happen and that trying nonviolence and authority first is not the appropriate first step.

When my son was being picked on we took the same tack- nonviolence and working with administrators and the bullying stopped.

The child in the OP is in Kindergarten. Perhpas if we show no tolerance for violence when they are five, we’ll have fewer bullies in high school. I could be wrong, but it is an experiment I’d like to see tried.

Teachers can seem much more detached than they are. We are usually trained to try to remain neutral and non-judgmental. You might be surprised how deeply our feelings run. It’s not always easy to be the calm one during a real fire or when we have to settle an argument between students in the hallway before it escalates. How do you know when we’ve just been chewed out by our bosses?

You cannot read our minds and your perception of our actions may not be fully informed.

Fair enough, “complete inability of teachers and administrators” is not accurate - it should read “of some teachers and administrators.” ITD, I’m glad that your experience was resolved smoothly, and I did have a teacher who took pains to nip bullying in the bud. However, it was a single teacher out of all of those in my elementary/middle school years. We must acknowledge that the education system generally incapable of dealing sanely with bullying. There are exception, but those are exceptions.

Rubystreak, I applaud you for trying to protect the interests of your students. I wish my teachers had done something when I was being constantly harassed by my peers, but they didn’t. I don’t really want to be sitting here suggesting parents tell their kids to hit back. But not everyone is lucky enough to have teachers that genuinely care and are able to help them. I don’t desire using violence as a solution. I wish that telling the teacher was good enough, or that if you ignored them they’d go away, but many people besides myself have had the experience where that just doesn’t work.

Kids have killed themselves over schoolyard bullying. It is in their best interests to make it stop. If fighting back works, then I’m all for it. I do agree that it should be a last resort, I just don’t want to see other kids going through the kind of hell I had to deal with–some of them don’t make it out alive.

I’m glad one of them helped you. I’m sure there were others who would have if you’d be able to talk to them. We’re not mind readers and we do have, in some cases (mine, for example) 100+ kids/day to deal with. If you have a problem, tell someone. There are some clueless and mean teachers, but honestly, most of them would want to be able to intervene and make a kid’s life better. We do choose this career because we love kids, for the most part. It sure ain’t for the generous pay and benefits package.

No, I won’t acknowledge that. I think maybe you had a bad experience. Everyone gets some crap in school. If yours was such a torment to you that you are still this bitter, then I have to think it was was worse than your average situation. YOU were the exception, not the one caring teacher.

ETA: Jayn, I’d never tell a kid to “ignore them and they’ll go away.” I hate bullying and I try to handle it swiftly and thoroughly. Maybe that’s why so many kids come to me with it, and why I take exception to people telling me I don’t care. I fucking care, and I do something about it. I can’t believe I’m the exception in my profession.

I didn’t miss that at all. Which is why I said what I did. First thing you teach kids is if some moron has a bad opinion of you and expresses it, that only shows he’s a moron. You teach your kids to think little of bullies and idiots. You teach them they have no need to feel offended, because a name-calling or hitting idiot isn’t worth their notice.

What was wrong with the Columbine boys was that they cared what others thought of them and had no self-esteem because they were picked on. They weren’t taught to ignore idiots. If you fight back, you’ve let the moron get to you. This is not what you need to teach a kid.

I agree with whoever said you should teach a kid to defend against blows, but this shouldn’t be needed at all. If your kids’ schools still don’t have anti-bullying programs, get off your asses and start them. Learn new and better ways of solving these problems. Quit being so bloody lazy and figuring teaching your little Rambo to ‘fight back’ is the acceptable way to civilize a kid. If you need to tackle the whole school board, do it, dammit!

WTF is wrong with you people? I stand by my statement; you folks have one hell of a violent take on life. It’s shocking to me. I’m also shocked to find I agree with Rubystreak, who fought me tooth and nail for the right to insult people on SDMB.

That’s what I was thinking.

Ruby, you may help yourself to your delusions. You’re a bit of a joke, actually. You genuinely believe that what I wrote is fiction? That a boy has never attacked another boy, in school, outside of the view of adults, while others gleefully cheer on the fight? That authority figures have never looked with contempt on kids (mostly boys) who won’t “stand up for themselves” by fighting back? You believe this doesn’t happen? If you do, then I am speechless, as you must be the single most oblivious educator of all time. Is there an award or something?

We all believe that you have intervened in cases of bullying. We all believe that other teachers have. We are telling you that many teachers do not. You don’t believe that, fine, but your obliviousness is showing.

None of us is arguing that hitting should be the first resort, or the second, or the third. But there are times when immediate adult intervention - for whatever reason - is not forthcoming. When conflict is coming, and running away or firing back with a clever quip are not options. You mocked my story very nicely, but never answered my question: what does the creative, competent person do in such a situation? I await your wisdom.

Oh, and you might consider in the future not telling others that anecdotes are not evidence when your entire argument stems from your eight whole years of experience working with children. Eight whole years. Wow.

How about for the opportunity to torment and lord it over children ? "There were certain teachers who would hurt the children in any way they could" and all that.

Well, hello Pollyanna. You know, for something that’s such an exception, it’s amazing how many people talk about how bullies made their life hell as a child.

Speaking of twisting words…

I, at least, do not have a violent take on life. I haven’t been in a physical fight since I was a junior in high school. I was in exactly two in high school; in both cases I was attacked under circumstances where I felt defending myself (using force) was necessary. Both were brief, bloodless, and relatively mild.

I loathe violence. I think it’s dreadful. But I think that, once in a very, very great while, it is sometimes needed. This is the lesson I’d have my kids learn; can you see no distinction between that and raising “Rambo?”

That wasn’t thinking. That was your knee, jerking.

Which are what, exactly? That hitting people is wrong to teach kids? That there are better ways to handle harassment? Please, do enumerate my delusions. Yours are all over the place. You obviously are holding onto things that happened to you in high school and are universalizing your experience. It’s by no means the norm.

No, you are, but what am I? :rolleyes:

Why, did it happen to you? Are you still not over it? Do you think it gives you the right to advocate violence, or insult how I do my job, or tar the entire teaching profession, just because of your inability to handle bullying? I mean, OK, if it happened to you, own it. Then we can have a real conversation. Otherwise, it’s just a story you made up to win a point on the internet.

That you couldn’t do anything but violence to deal with it? That I don’t believe.

There are bad and clueless teachers and administrators. Bad parents. Mean kids. It’s the fucking world, kid. Of course I believe it. What I don’t believe is that any adult should tell kids that they should have to hit other kids to solve their problems. You yourself are saying that you wouldn’t stand up for yourself. Why do you think the only way you could do that was with violence? Isn’t violence the problem you are railing against, yet teachers and administrators should have condoned it if you did it? Do you see a contradiction here?

I bet many of them don’t know it’s happening and aren’t deliberately ignoring it. I guarantee that very few of them WANT kids to get bullied, or wouldn’t help a kid if they knew he was being bullied. I also don’t believe that a kid couldn’t find an adult in the entire school who could intervene and end the problem.

Defend yourself. How many times did I say that? Do it. Be prepared for whatever consequences are incurred, which would depend on what you chose to do and how it went. And find someone to help you ASAP. What else can I possibly say beyond that?

I’m not depending on a fictionalized version that might or not be my life. I’m telling you, I deal with kids every day. I see all the shit you’re talking about. I will not tell kids to hit other kids. I will not admit that most teachers ignore bullying or don’t give a damn, or that schools are catastrophically failing to deal with bullying. Sorry, that’s not anecdote, that’s experience.

You know what, Ruby? I’d like to take a step back, if it’s not too late for that. I’m saying things to you that I have no business saying; I know absolutely jack shit about you and your work and have no right to offer criticism of it, either in the way that I have been or really even at all. Please accept my very sincere apology.


Can I start again? First, this: little Wesley is 14-year-old me, Medical Sciences Learning Center Class of '95. My story is no more fictional than yours. I hit back. I did so because at the time, I had a very strong instinctive sense that if I did not, I was going to get hurt, maybe badly. I hit back because in that moment, I genuinely saw no other options. Couldn’t run. Couldn’t appeal to an authority figure. I wasn’t some psychotic Rambo wanna-be. I was a skinny nerd who spent most of his afterschool time in the theatre. But I worked construction on weekends, so I was stronger than my bully thought I would be. He hit me, I hit him back. I don’t apologize for it. I saw kids get pretty busted up, pretty quickly. It doesn’t require the teacher to go to Fiji for two weeks; it only takes two minutes while the teacher is peeing for somebody to get a broken nose (I am Italian, so anything that made my nose even less appealing to look at was going to be a major problem for me). So I hit back, and we both walked away uninjured.

Am I being dramatic? Maybe. He probably wouldn’t have hurt me for realsies. But at that moment, I thought he was going to. I geuninely think the times when retalitory violence is warranted are exceedingly rare; some people may make it through their entire school career and never encounter a situation where it is. But I don’t think it should be taken off the table, not completely.

Here’s the thing. You say this:

Which actually I agree with. My problem is with policies that don’t allow for the second half of your fourth sentence - assigning consequences based on exactly who did what and why and how it went. Some of what are termed Zero Tolerance policies don’t allow for nuanced assessment of a situation, and distribution of consequences in a way that accurately represents what happened; they call for Punishment X in response to Action Y, which seems crude and likely to make kids feel (as so many in this thread do) that the authority figures aren’t interested in fairness.

Does that make sense?

And you have mine if I made you feel bad. I take all this bullying very seriously and I wish I could have helped you, and I would have if I was your teacher. It does sound like you had not much choice but to do the best you could in that situation.

What you are saying is not the same as what other posters were saying about what to tell kids. I think adults have to tell their kids that violence isn’t OK and to try to find another way. If you have to hit, (wo)man up to the consequences. You chose to punch that kid, and I bet you dealt with your punishment from the school, if there was any. The OP was saying his niece should be able to hit other kids and not get punished. That is not a feasible policy for school, esp. for an admitted repeat offender like the OP’s niece.

It does, but I don’t think the zero tolerance policies are a chart that has a rigid assignment of what the punishment is. I’m sure some administrators don’t listen and some kids get harsher or milder punishments than they deserve. But overall, it’s a dynamic process with lots of talking to lots of people before the consequence is meted out, esp. when suspensions are involved. I have heard kids complain about bullying and it not getting noticed, but rarely that the victim took action and was unjustly punished.

I don’t know what your outcome was in this situation. What did happen? And how long ago was this? I’d like to think that consciousness has been raised on this issue and that teachers are more aware and proactive than they were when I was a kid.

Cool. But let’s make sure we keep insulting each other here and there so this doesn’t end up in that debate forum or some such.

Well… OK. I’m not sure we really disagree about anything here. I agree with you. There are consequences to everything. Hell, I came into this thread and got nasty and now, as a consequence, I feel guilty (like I said, I’m Italian, so it’s a lot of talking without thinking, guilt, and then pasta). But what the consequences should be, about that we maybe might disagree. A little girl hits back once, to get the boy who hit her to back away, then runs away? Maybe her punishment should be a stern reminder that hitting isn’t good except in the most extreme situations. Little girl uses the fact that the boy punched her arm to kick him in the nads and break his nose? Maybe that’s a different situation.

Well, your school district must be very different from my wife’s. In her school, their ZT policy involves exactly what you mention in the first sentence above: a chart, with specific punishments attached to specific actions and no room for interpretation, discussion, or judgment. If we can agree that this is a bad thing, then we really have nothing left about which to argue.

Well, let’s see. It was… woof. 15 years ago, give or take. In the particular case I mention, I was not punished at all (neither was the instigator, who by the way when I saw him at our 10 year reunion talked to me like I had been his best friend in high school). The teacher on duty in that case was in fact the football coach, and had a very “boys will be boys” attitude about the whole thing; I think he thought it was character-building that we resolved our differences “like men,” or whatever. Kind of a dick, that guy.

Just reading this thread has made me sick to my stomach. Not because of the differing opinions, but because of the memories it brought back. Memories of being in the 7th grade and trying to get in trouble in school, so I would get held for after school detention. If I was in detention I had to walk the 7 miles home and hope like hell I made it before my mom got home from work. But it meant I didn’t have to ride the bus knowing I was going to get my ass beat when I got off the bus. I made good grades - a lot of the other kids didn’t like me. My mother was a lot like some of the posters in this thread - she believed I should never hit back. I still have a ripped earlobe where one girl ripped out my earrings because she wanted them.

This did not occur in school - it was after school while everyone’s parents were at work.

Finally, a classmate of mine came and had a talk with my mother. He told her flat out that as long as I didn’t make any attempt to defend myself - per her orders - and everyone knew I wasn’t allowed to defend myself - I was going to get beaten up on a regular basis. Anyone who wanted to look tough could whip my ass with no fear of consequences. Talk to their parents? It is to laugh. The reactions varied from total disbelief (my baby would never hit anyone - your child is a liar and trying to get my baby in trouble. No, I don’t know how she got that black eye and I don’t care. My baby didn’t do it and you can’t prove she did) to a couple of moms offering to beat the shit out of my mother if she got their kid in trouble.

Mom finally told me I could defend myself. The classmate gave me a few pointers. The next time I rode the bus home I was jumped as usual - but I fought back. I’m not going to say I beat anyone’s ass, but it wasn’t an easy victory anymore. The fun had gone out of it for the bullies when I started back - why, they might actually suffer some pain! The daily ass-kickings stopped, and I only had to fight a few more times before it ended completely.

I don’t think teaching that violence is the best choice is the right idea - and I don’t think anyone is advocating that. But kids aren’t around adults all the time, and bullies know how to cover their asses. Unless you want to live in fear as I did (and still remember) sometimes you have to convince the bully you are not an easy target for their games.

Luckily I never had a problem with bullies and my son didn’t. I feel so sorry for kids that do, and I think if I couldn’t get it resolved I’d homeschool or something. Is it because classroom sizes are so much bigger that things don’t get noticed?

My sister’s son was in a situation in second grade where I wouldn’t call the other kid a bully but just bad and sort of bratty. The first time the kid hit my nephew and my nephew hit him back and they went to the office and got the no hitting speech, and tell the teacher, yadda yadda. My sister went for a meeting and the other parents didn’t show up.

They told my nephew (who isn’t shy or quiet) not to hit back but tell the teacher. He told the teacher, another meeting and another no-show by the parents.
Apparently it still went on, usually in the boys bathroom and my sister only found out because another little boy told his mother and she told my sister. For whatever reason that kids have he didn’t want to tell the teacher again. Maybe because nothing got resolved.

Another meeting where the parents don’t show up. After that my sister reluctantly told my nephew that if the kid hit him again, to hit him back. And she told the teacher she said that. And the kid knew that. If he got suspended, so be it.

Nothing ever came of it I think because the kid knew that my nephew wasn’t going to be his punching bag. I think he went on to smack some other kid around according to my sister. It’s a small town and people have really tried to get along with this kid. They invite him to parties but he’s just too bad. I feel for the kid because he has problems.

I think you have to do everything you can to teach kids that fighting isn’t the answer. To a point. When it gets to the point where the child doesn’t want to go to school or their life is miserable, you act accordingly.

:smiley:

I’m half Italian, so I feel half guilty. No halfway on the pasta, though.

My feeling is, a kid who gets in fights often warrants some more investigation and intervention. Either she is being chronically bullied or she is into getting involved in shit and is a hitter. It’s not clear from the OP what the situation is, but as you and others have pointed out, kids who hit back early and often don’t stay victims of bullies for very long. Thus, the OP gets my :dubious: for his allegations that the niece is 100% innocent. That is rarely the case with kids who fight a lot.

Using charts to assess people’s needs is wrong. We agree. There is a sort of SOP with these things in a general sense, but they are very nonspecific and I know that context is important. If a kid is caught with a weapon, it’s an automatic 5 days out of school suspension-- something like that is established and not negotiable. Situations like yours, esp. if there were witnesses, I don’t know how that would go.

And this is important, because I think our generation and earlier had it harder because of this “boys will be boys” or “toughen up, kid” attitude towards bullying. I know it does still happen. When it does, it’s wrong. Most of the teachers I know don’t think that way, though I have known some. I do know that gym teachers in particular have had their consciousness raised because that was a setting that lent itself to lots of bad behavior.

Hi! Just wanted to add my two cents.

Off the top of my head, I’d bet money that Little Nemo is right and it’s more of a “kids can’t respond to aggression with violence” concept rather than a “girls can’t hit boys back” motive.

Doesn’t make it any less wrong, imo. Did the boy receive any punishment for hitting her? This is actually a very important point. This is the flaw in how school’s discipline children that leads to the major acts of violence from outsider kids we’ve been seeing more and more. Any time they try to stop the kids harrassing them, no matter how many times it’s repeated itself, the harrassers generally get a slap on the wrist, and the peers consider the child a “tattle-tale.” If the child takes matters into their own hands, it’s met with severe reprimands, and maybe the harrasser is also punished. It leads to meltdowns more often than we’d like to admit.
Fortunately these meltdowns usually take the form of the child either having a crying fit or beating the crap out of the bullies (come what may) than it does shootings. But it’s a bad way to deal with the situation. If there’s one thing public schools should have taken away from incidents like Columbine is that they need to deal with abuse amongst students with a more hands-on approach and not wave it off as “that’ll never happen here, after all, it only happened there because they missed all those warning signs!”
I’m the first person to say that there’s been a growing trend to mollycoddle kids and treat them precious, entitled little toys to show off to your friends. That’s a dramatic exagerration, but the point holds. This is different, however; we have a fundamentally inappropriate mentality for dealing with these situations.

I’m speaking from personal experience here. I’m a nerd, and I was “the fat kid” in school, and was therefor a near-constant target of insults and harrassment by my classmates and upper-classmen. Let’s just say that every year in junior high I got into at least one fight. In highschool I got into a couple scuffles (even against kids who would’ve kicked my ass if the fight had been allowed to continue), until one day I slugged a kid a couple times to prevent him from trying to humiliate me in front of the class room.
The school was going to do the usual song and dance, until his parents called and raised a fuss (he probably had told them a very one-sided version of my student history) and since we live in a wealthy area where ~1-in-5 students has a lawyer for a parent they over-reacted. They suspended me for a few days, made me transfer to a different classroom, and had me get a psych assessment. Now I was already dealing with depression, and after the school found out about that (plus this was the year after Columbine), they treated me with kid gloves, but still never really tried to correct the root problem.

We all laugh when Ralphie beats up Scott Fargus in A Christmas Story. But imagine it’s happening on school grounds, and the school keeps dismissing matters until Ralphie flips out, then harshly punishes him and gives Scott a single detention. Does this really sound alright? :dubious:

I think that sometimes when teachers appear to be on the side of the little nasties at school, it’s got to do with the fact that they’re trying very hard to see all of the kids as human beings with potential – even if they know deep down in side that this one and that one have cold black hearts. (And doesn’t it sound horrible to think of children, any children, as having cold black hearts?) It’s part of the job of a teacher, to maintain and instil hope – to my way of thinking, the toughest part of the job, because there is so little time and status placed upon it in the hierarchy of day-to-day teaching activities. Which is why, as so many people are describing, schools feed it as a pretty thin gruel to kids who don’t suck greedily at the trough.

Some schools get caught up in some truly ridiculous policies trying to save themselves time and effort or avoid legal back-and-forthing. One I recall at our daughter’s school used to involve a rule against excluding other children. While this was no doubt intended to make it more difficult for less socially apt kids to be left with no one to play with, aggressive sorts quickly tuned in to the fact that they could be irritating or rude or nasty or unpleasant to other children, and if the other children attempted to avoid them in any way as a result, the “no excluding!” rule would prevent natural consequences from taking place. :rolleyes:

At our house, we honestly think that a lot of education should go on at home, and that includes a lot of coaching on the vagaries of social interaction, as well as checking to make sure that the teacher is actually interpreting lesson material correctly. If you find that there are school-induced or teacher-induced errors that are giving your child grief, you have two choices: coach your child regarding an appropriate response and see how it comes out, or approach the teacher and/or principal to voice your concern. We have used both methods at different times, and sometimes both at the same time. It all depends on the situation. For example, when our daughter was subjected to physical violence (in response to mouthing someone off on the playground), we used both methods – coaching and approaching. When we discovered the other day that the teacher had taught the wrong answer using erroneous logic in a probability lesson, we chose to simply coach our child on the correct method and why the teacher’s had been incorrect. The bottom line is that she’s our daughter, not the school’s, and sometimes she (our daughter) would also prefer that a problem be handled in a certain way, too – and since she’s the one spending all her school days there, she gets input. It can all take up a lot of time and energy, but I don’t recall getting into parenting because I wanted to put my feet up more.

Any so-called disciplinary action that treats the instigator and the responder/retaliator in the same manner is at best intellectually lazy, and at worst an acknowledgment of a complete inability to make judgments regarding right and wrong. I see this go on in the adult world, too – say, where an accusation is made and wholly cleared, but the accuser suffers no consequence for malice. It’s injustice, plain and simple, and I don’t see much reason in calling it anything else.

I had a pretty surreal experience in 4th grade that I hadn’t thought about until I read this thread. Details are still coming back as I write this.

Background: The school divided the grades into two groups, and subdivided the halves into classes as necessary to have less than the legal student/teacher limit. I think there were three classes per half as I went through. The timing of each half’s recess and lunch were staggered. Otherwise there were no differences as far as I know.

Anyway. I’m screwing around at recess one day when Mr Wooten, the gym teacher, calls me over, hands me off to another teacher who escorts me to see the Principal (who was later caught up in a scandal over falsifying attendance records to increase school funding, but that’s neither here nor there).

As it was told to me, Today I’d gone too far. My response to this was something along the lines of “wha, who?” So she’s brought in a girl named Colleen (whom I recognized by I don’t believe I ever interacted with her in any way before or after this event) and told some story about me kicking her coming down the slide (which, incidentally was a truly spectacular slide. It was about 7feet tall and all metal polished to high sheen by decades’ worth of sliding. VERY UNSAFE. You’d shoot off the end of it. Last time I drove by I noticed they’d taken out the old playground equipment and put in one of those wooden monstrosities.) To this I said something to the effect that I don’t know who she was, but if I did kick her on the slide, it was an accident and I was sorry. The end?

Not so much. The Principal didn’t buy this because, it was explained to me, I’d apparently been tormenting young Colleen for a while now, further there was a Pattern of Behavior. Thus began a parade of various kids I didn’t know telling me about things I’d apparently done to tease and bully them. I didn’t really have a way to comprehend or process this much less the principal’s demands that I explain myself each time. I asked if I could sit down. Denied. I began to feel sick and said so, she slammed a trashcan down and told me to puke in that if I had to. That moment is, I believe, when I lost my childlike trust of adults. I was 8.

And then something weird happened. The little sister of a friend of mine who lives down the street came in. Someone I knew! I remembered getting a ride home one day with her because I had to walk all the way to the other end of the school because that’s where the other half’s classes were held. At which point that it clicked for me that the reason I didn’t recognize this parade of kids is because they’re weren’t from my half. There was no way for me to have done anything those kids had been saying. And that moment is when I lost my childlike respect for the authority of adults. She told a story about how I’d pushed her around and how I’d taunt her dog whenever I went by her house. Then it was demanded that I explain why I was “tormenting” this girl’s dog or did I not remember this one, either.

I explained that Jack was her brother’s dog, not hers… and while I freely admitted that the dog barked at me whenever I went by their yard and that I barked back (yeah, well… hey, I was young), the dog and I got along quite well, thank you, when it wasn’t chained to a tree. Further, she wasn’t in my class. Her class was on the other end of the school. I never saw her at all on a normal school day.

I don’t know if it clicked for the principal too at that point or what. But the interview ended and the school day was pretty much over. I didn’t tell my parents about it. They never asked me about it. AFAIK, the principal didn’t tell them about it. It was late in the school year and 5th grade was at a completely different school across town. Nothing ever came of it to my knowledge. I scrupulously took notice of, and avoided, Colleen for the rest of the school year. Didn’t see her again.

I still can’t figure out what was going on. I know the theory I came up with at the time was that Colleen had enlisted her cohorts from the other half in a conspiracy against me. That seems like an awful lot of planning for 8 year olds now. And I never could figure out why they’d bother.

Anyway.
I’ve also been told a story about when I was four and being accosted by the neighborhood bully (who, had the better part of a decade and about 100 pound on me) having my brothers urging from the sidelines to punch him in the nose. Reportedly I jumped up (as in, I had to jump to reach that high) and gave him a bloody nose.
That would be the only fight I’ve ever been in, and I don’t remember it.

Otherwise, people pretty much left me alone throughout school on that front. I had two incidents outside of school. One ended up in my parents calling the cops and going to non-judicial binding arbitration with the kid. One ended up fizzling out when the would-be hero realized that “me and all of my fag friends” in the car at the time included the very big boyfriend of of a girl I knew glowering from the back seat. Said girl told me a couple years later that a lot of the bullying set left me alone because they were scared of me. I weighed 135 pounds in high school and took unnecessary science classes because I liked them. Dork, yes. Weird, yes. Scary?