A friend of mine told me that the reason that our group (I was a member of what I like to describe as a “Hard-drinking sci-fi club” in college) had a tendency to “think outside of the box” was that, as children, none of the other kids had let us inside of it.
It was kind of a bittersweet observation, being both funny and, well, kind of sad once you thought about it. That said, I generally pride myself on my unorthodox thinking, for my tendency to be the penguin with the funny bowtie.
Here’s what I don’t understand about bullying. Parents are all opposed to it, of course, they’d never be a fan of bullying, they’re all for zero tolerance.
Really? Then who put ‘The Soprano’s’ at the top of the tv listings? How’d it get to be No. 1? But I’m sure parents never have it, on the set, while the kids are roaming around, right? Or, better still, I’m sure they refrain from expressing their admiration for Tony Soprano, in front of kids, when friends are over, etc. Yeah, right.
Everybody says they are opposed to bullying, when in reality they send a very, very different message to their kids every single day.
Check out what’s drawing crowds at the theatre or the video game store. What are you spending your dollars on? What’s on your shelf?
Still certain you’re opposed to bullying, or just wagging your jaw with pc bullshit?
I’m not that smart. And I’ve made a career (consulting, then project management) off of networking and working well with others. This was a case of “them, not me.” And, of course, not all of them - I got along great with the other outcasts. Some of my teachers just felt that maybe I should try to be Popular and on the A List.
What the hell does The Sopranos have to do with school bullying?
Damn, there must be millions of serial killers out there, considering how popular **Dexter **is. :rolleyes:
It’s true. My dad’s admiration for that show is why I serially kill serial killers.
I think the idea is that, while we’re busy saying (and meaning) to our kids that they shouldn’t bully, we’re also eager to watch television and movies which feature bullies in (arguably) sympathetic roles. Often, these characters who are “standing up” to other bullies or protecting or seeking vengeance for wrongs done to their loved ones, but with the current fad for antiheroes, they’re often just straight up bullies with few or no redeeming qualities.
I think it’s worth considering, especially when choosing what to watch with little eyes around. But I also don’t think it’s a symptom of "PC"ness or hypocrisy. People often like to watch these sorts of things because they’re cathartic, or they like to imagine themselves being badass enough to carry them out even though they wouldn’t do any such thing in reality, or simply because it’s fun to be shocked and appalled at the latest exploits of Tony Soprano or Tommy Gavin or Patrick Jayne (bullies all).
I don’t watch The Mentalist because I secretly support bullies, but because it’s an interesting show and when Jayne really pulls some abhorrent, bullying behavior (in his case, to “crack” a suspect and get the truth out of them), I’m truly shocked to see the depths to which he will stoop in his desire to win for the “good guys”. It moves me emotionally, and even though he’s the “hero” of the show and he does what he does to put the bad guys in jail, I wouldn’t want my little one watching it. She doesn’t have the cognitive ability yet to understand the levels of what’s going on, she would simply see “the good guy” behaving badly and might indeed emulate that. So she’s in bed before it starts.
(Sorry I switched the example from The Sopranos to The Mentalist, but I’ve never seen The Sopranos. I think The Mentalist fits the topic as well, though.)
Adults contextualize, children just absorb that violence, aggression, bullying are being glorified.
Sort of, ‘do as I say’, not as I do. Good luck with that.
That’s kind of at the heart of the “It’s Get Better” Project. I’m sure they’d love hearing from you (and I’d pay money to hear you read one of your rants outloud 
)
elbows - children aren’t born understanding that bullying is wrong. It’s up to the adults to provide context to them for everything. This would be true even if television didn’t exist and parents had to use examples of being nice to younger sibs or being gentle with the pets. Sometimes the parents fall down on the job. Even if there was no television, there’d still be violence in the world. It’d still be the parents job to contextualize it. If it wasn’t tv, it’d just be something else. Some parents would still fall down on the job.
That said, the Sopranos didn’t actually glorify violence, or Tony in particular. It was one of the main themes of the show, that actually being in the mob wasn’t glamorous or exciting like you see in the movies.
There was an episode which showed Tony and his cousin (played by Steve Buscemi) bullying Tony’s nephew Christopher, (who was maybe 15 years younger than Tony). Apparently, Christopher had looked up to the cousins when he was a kid and they’d teased him mercilessly. They’re all adults now, but when Tony and his cousin are reunited, they fall right back into mocking Christopher as harshly as before. Christopher grew up to be a drug addict and a murderer several times over. The echoes of the bullying he experienced show up in his actions and in the way people treat him. He’s probably the most tragic character in the show.
Yeah. Everyone keeps telling me that I should get on FaceBook. And the number one reason they offer is that I could get in contact with people I went to high school with. Why the fuck would I want to do that? I was overjoyed the see the last of them.
Being “in the box” ain’t all it’s cracked up to be (not that I’d know)
I had a relatively positive HS experience, but only about 1/3 of my FB “friends” are (public) HS friends.
Yup. I was never bullied or a bully, but in recollection I should have helped people out a lot more than I did. There’s a kid I remember from secondary school, and his daily journey and daily existence must have been a living hell. I could have sorted that. Didn’t though. Crippling shyness at that age.
Not to criticize you in any way, Baron Greenback, but that’s a message I’d like to see getting to a fair number of HS kids.
I got a lot of bullying in high school - I’m not gay, but I was a socially and emotionally inept emo nerdy kid - but I also had a few episodes of being a complete fucking asshole to two of the other vulnerable boys. Strangely enough I ended up befriending both of them, which hopefully made up for my actions a bit, but I still feel ashamed about it. I can’t imagine how hard highschool can be for gay kids “even now”.
As for my personal experiences with getting bullied, it did, immediately, get better after high school. Or in my case, after I transferred to an “adult school” to finish my last year where students were expected to take responsibility for their own education and actions.
I hope this project gets a lot of exposure, since lots of kids in school right now can really use the message.
panche, I’m sorry but the ASSHOLES at my school pretty much gave me PTSD. Their actions and words still make me shudder.’ Granted they were fucking retarded. I will never forget a girl in my LATIN class. Let me repeat that…Latin class. Actually let me clarify. HONORS Latin! Most Resource Room kids don’t even take a foreign language, much less two. Anyway, she asked me if I was going to a "special school"after graduation!!!
I don’t. Fuck 'em. The damage these mean-spirited troglodytes can do others in their “Us/Them” aparthied and viciousness cuts them zero slack in my eyes for their coming revelation that they don’t matter a damn.
I don’t exactly feel sorry for them, but I also feel schadenfreude when I think of what awaits them after high school. Finding out that no one really gives a shit about any of the stuff that mattered in high school is a tough reality check. As an adult student, I got to lay the smack down on more than one of these kids. I found it quite satisfying whenever one of these Queen Bees or Jocks got their fingers pinched for trying to play stupid mind games.
Likewise, it’s also great to see someone who was bullied in high school come out of their shell once they’ve found their niche. One of my closest friends in college had been bullied in high school for being gay, but once he got to college and found the GLBT group, he realized that few, if any, people really care that he’s gay, and that the ones that do care are the ones he wouldn’t hang out with anyway.
I think thw “It Gets Better” project is a great idea, and I hope it has much success.
but I think the schadenfreude in this thread is nasty as well as - frankly - not always right. Many of the “popular” kids I knew went to college, got married, have successful jobs. They aren’t living in the past. My cousin was homecoming queen, became a nurse practitioner, married a cardiologist, has three lovely children living in a huge house in the 'burbs. Another cousin was a star football and baseball player, is married, has a lovely child, and a successful career. His buddy catches for the Twins. I doubt either of them were bullies, but they both were the “beautiful people” in high school - the ones for whom high school is supposed to be “the best years of their lives.” And I don’t think either would say it was. Now, my sister, homecoming princess, four sport letterer, did fall on her face - a boyfriend who beat the shit out of her and alcoholism. I wouldn’t wish what she went through on my worst tormentor. She is now sober and engaged to a fantastic man.
If living well is the best revenge - live for yourself and don’t wait for the others to fall on their face - your happiness is not dependent on that - and it might not happen. Besides, it really isn’t becoming.
As nice as all the words are above, a lot of it is totally untrue - it does NOT get better after high school - take a look at what just happened at Rutgers University.
I teach at a college and we have pretty much an even mix of all races, and a good percentage of Gay and Lesbian students. For the most part, due to the fact this is a college with Art being a key component in every major, the students are a bit more accepting. Still, I hear lots of (mostly black) students freely making Gay jokes, and I hear lots of (mostly white) female students making fun of the fat/nerd guys.
Whenever I hear it in class, I stop what we are doing - single them out - and tell them to stop it. I tell them if I hear one more comment like that they will leave my class.
It works.
As long as the “bully” thinks they can get away with it, they will continue to do so. Nip it in the bud and it stops - at least in the classroom.
In our class reviews, where students write their opinion of the class and the instructor, I have consistently scored 100% for “treats all students with respect”.
Several have written comments about how much they appreciated me taking the stand in class.
It is a small step, but I can vividly recall people telling nigger jokes, people telling fag jokes, people telling geek/nerd jokes - and I knew even as a kid that this was hurtful, stupid and mean-spirited. I don’t allow it with friends and family, and I sure as hell am not going to allow it in my classroom.
I think people aren’t suggesting that all the bullshit magically stops up on graduation, but that getting out into the world gives people a chance to find a place of their own where they can thrive. Also, that the bullies will be meeting people like who won’t coddle their asses like highschool teachers did.
You’re the frontline, DMark, in delivering attitude adjustments to the former highschool big-shots. You might be the first person some of them have met who doesn’t think their shit is cute.